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poverton
Linking on to the other thread, I've been thinking about what the best solutions are for everyone.

I think there are two options, am I right? (putting all emotions aside for a moment)

1. To rescue a cross breed, full Mongrel with no apparent health issues and neuter.

2. To purchase a health checked puppy from a REPUTABLE breeder, who is experienced in genetics for dog breeding, has a long pedigree supporting diversity, and has health checked the dog and bitch prior to mating.

Then, to neuter all the rest, and PTS dogs that will suffer due to inherited diseases.

Am I getting there?

Am trying to get a grip on this.
johnderondon
QUOTE(poverton @ 21st Aug 2008, 3:39 pm) *

Linking on to the other thread, I've been thinking about what the best solutions are for everyone.

I think there are two options, am I right? (putting all emotions aside for a moment)

1. To rescue a cross breed, full Mongrel with no apparent health issues and neuter.

2. To purchase a health checked puppy from a REPUTABLE breeder, who is experienced in genetics for dog breeding, has a long pedigree supporting diversity, and has health checked the dog and bitch prior to mating.

Then, to neuter all the rest, and PTS dogs that will suffer due to inherited diseases.

Am I getting there?

Am trying to get a grip on this.


If everyone followed your second proposal then genetic diversity to take yet another hit.

If one were set on purchasing a puppy I would suggest sourcing and reputable and ethical breeder of crossbreeds. How easy that would be I don't know.
clairen
QUOTE(poverton @ 21st Aug 2008, 3:39 pm) *

Linking on to the other thread, I've been thinking about what the best solutions are for everyone.

I think there are two options, am I right? (putting all emotions aside for a moment)

1. To rescue a cross breed, full Mongrel with no apparent health issues and neuter.

2. To purchase a health checked puppy from a REPUTABLE breeder, who is experienced in genetics for dog breeding, has a long pedigree supporting diversity, and has health checked the dog and bitch prior to mating.

Then, to neuter all the rest, and PTS dogs that will suffer due to inherited diseases.

Am I getting there?

Am trying to get a grip on this.


my thoughts are reflected as posted on the other thread


to point 1 - i'd say no, there are plenty of x's/ full mongrels with health probs - often not shown til later in life. mixes may well give a risk depending on the breeds involved even though diluted. 'breeds' have thier place - without the extremes of 'looks' - cos that all i can see thats involved aside from money tbh!

point 2. yep i'd agree - to an extent, health checks etc yes, but long pedigrees equalls problems and ch wins which brings us right back round again to the other thread and the link to showing, genetics would take a tumble.

3rd point - neutering yes - pts no, as many of these problems dont show properly til later in life. again back round to how to prevent it.

maybe its one of those things where its up to the powers that be that only dogs who are proven to be of sound mind and health without the extremes are bred from - in which case brings be back to random testing/ or full certificated dogs are allowed to show and breed, if not then only neutered - if showing isnt about breeding then why do they only allow entire animals? unsure.gif

not sure how much of an answer that was but those are me thoughts lol! lol.gif

adamandbecks
I'd say common sense plays the biggest part in all this...............the reason these dogs are in the state they are is because we want perfection in the show ring not a healthy, happy dog. If the breeders were more interested in producing healthy pups instead of show champions we'd get somewhere, people that are buying these pups have no idea of the conditions they are buying into, and like the poor owners on the programme the other night they never bought into that!

People being greedy has got us into this mess, perfect example the woman whose cav had been diagnosed and gone on to have 26 litters, and won best of breed!!!! Makes no sense at all.

I hope that the situation gets more publicity, and then hopefully un-suspecting people won't buy into these conditions just because some old dear wants perfection in the show ring. I believe this isn't something that the RSPCA or KC can solve and needs to become a law passed by the queen that all dogs entered into championship shows should meet certain criteria (for that breed) as to health.
Rainbow Jo
The gene pool will always be restricted, because there are only so many dogs.

The issue is HOW restricted it is, for dogs like labs, there are bound to be dogs who are not related for breeding. It becomes a problem when the breed is numerically large (like cavaliers) but the vast majority have health problems. Introducing other breeds is a possible answer, but even then, how do you bring in new lines which retain all the characteristics, but eliminate the health concerns? unsure.gif

BTW, I think responsible breeders of cross breeds are out there (there are people breeding some of the poodle crosses who are doing all the health tests, breeding from the dogs with the best temperaments, and breeding infrequently enough to ensure litters get all the care they need) BUT they are few and far between.

There has to be either restrictions on dog breeding, so the puppy farms cannot continue, or more education for the general public, so the puppy farms lose business.

One suggestion I heard, was to make it illegal to sell a dog for more than 50. It wouldn't be feasible to make money out of breeding then. I think that would just encourage puppy farmers and bybs to cut even more corners though err.gif
poverton
QUOTE(JoCorney @ 21st Aug 2008, 4:17 pm) *

Introducing other breeds is a possible answer, but even then, how do you bring in new lines which retain all the characteristics, but eliminate the health concerns? unsure.gif



Would it be possible via a worldwide breeding programme, ensuring as many diverse sources of the same breed, with the best temperaments and all possible health checks?
misty11
Showing is not just about breeding, you can show neutered dogs/bitches. Tilly is spayed and I show her, and she has qualified for Crufts 3 times this year.
I can only speak for 'my' breed but alot more than half that show do not breed, and never will.
In the last few years 6 dogs have been imported from different countries. plus some owners have taken there bitches abroad to be mated. Health is taken very seriously in the breed, everyone that shows has there dogs/bitches health tested. In this breed it means DNA tests for PRA and CEA, hip scoring and an annual eye test. Also the working side of the breed is very important so alot of people do an activity sport with their dogs, agility, obedience, working trials, gundog work, flyball, heelwork to music, they can do everything!
You only have to read the breed forum to see how much people love the breed. Also the comments about THE tv show, not one person has stood up for the KC, I suspect on alot of other breed forums people will be sticking up for them!
Deerhounder

I havent yet seen anyone 100% backing the KC as they are now.

Everywhere i look, everyone is demanding they do more than they currently do, give the accredited breeder scheme real teeth, make KC registration the badge of quality it OUGHT to be..

Ive seen people (and I agree myself), disagree with the way the program went about what it had to say - but not what it actually had to say.
Bevd
QUOTE(Deerhounder @ 21st Aug 2008, 9:37 pm) *

I havent yet seen anyone 100% backing the KC as they are now.

Everywhere i look, everyone is demanding they do more than they currently do, give the accredited breeder scheme real teeth, make KC registration the badge of quality it OUGHT to be..

Ive seen people (and I agree myself), disagree with the way the program went about what it had to say - but not what it actually had to say.

In a nutshell, that sums up the conversation I had yesterday with Darcy and Duffy's breeder about the programme.
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