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whodunthat
Don't know if anyone else has discussed this on here before but -

I'm really really shocked. I was told about a new pet shop that had opened in my area that sold pedigree puppies. I went along this afternoon to have a look and couldn't beleive what I saw. A long corridor with approx 40 cubicles (small rooms no natural daylight, tiled floors and walls, sawdust on the floor) if not more - with all breeds of pedigree puppies for sale.
The place was full of people tapping windows and saying "i want that one" I like that one - isn't it cute"

I stood next to two women and caught this part of their conversation - " are you gonna get one " I don't know - if you get one I'll get one " err.gif

I'm shocked.....

I asked one of the young girls working there, where they came from - she answered "breeders!" !!!! I asked if they came from puppy farms - she hadn't a clue what I was talking about .
I asked what history they had on the parents - ? Only the pedigree - nothing about anything else. but they did reassure me that they are guaranteed for six months !!!! ohmy.gif

Has anyone heard of this chain ? there were people sat in a queue waiting to pay for them ?
The puppies looked stressed.......

How do they get away with this?


gem05708
OH my goodness how on earth is that allowed. Poor poor wee puppies. where abouts is this.
gem05708
They even have a website!!!!!
whodunthat
Its a new store.....it's a horrible place. I can't help but think alot of those pups are gonne find themselves in some awfull situations..... sad.gif
Bevd
QUOTE(whodunthat @ 18th Aug 2008, 5:41 pm) *

Has anyone heard of this chain ?

I have changed your topic title to remove their name. To name them just gives them further advertising.

QUOTE(gem05708 @ 18th Aug 2008, 5:45 pm) *

They even have a website!!!!!

Don't post it.

QUOTE(whodunthat @ 18th Aug 2008, 5:46 pm) *

Its a new store that has opened.......its a horrible place. I can't help but think alot of those pups are gonne find themselves in some awfull situations..... sad.gif

I've removed a bit of what you said so as not to publicise them.
gem05708
I thought the law had changed to stop pet shops selling puppies and kittens
whodunthat
Fair enough I understand your editing...... I am just so angry and shocked..... I really hate to say this too, but the place was full of people that I wouldn't trust to look after a gold fish never mind a dog . err.gif
whodunthat
QUOTE(gem05708 @ 18th Aug 2008, 5:49 pm) *

I thought the law had changed to stop pet shops selling puppies and kittens


I'm gonna speak with the KC tomorrow ....and see what they think to this sort of shop.
Dopeydog
You may find the dogs are not KC registered, they may have their own registry. I once went into a place in manchester that sounds the same and was selling american cockers saying they were KC registered and if you ask to see their papers they wont let you err.gif

Horrible places and the one Im talking about has had several failed attempts to shut it down. At weekends its FULL to bursting with people buying pups.

Alot of people think this is the only way to get a pup, alot of the dogs from there have problems sad.gif
feejb
I think this chain have come up with their own registry. It's not worth the paper they print it on but they make out it's something special to the (usually) naive buyers.

I'm thinking of the one in Manchester which may be the same chain the OP is referring to. Disgusting place and I am amazed it is still operating and people haven't wised up to this way of selling pups err.gif

Poor babies sad.gif and their Mums and Dads sad.gif
whodunthat
Well I'm gonna go back and challenge them.......I'm gonna ask them for the registration papers etc and make a good loud fuss ......I'm also gonna contact my MP.
lizzy23
is it in Leeds By any chance???
poverton
Can someone PM me the details please - would like to go and see and see what can be done. Thsnks, Penny
x
whodunthat
Image

These are some of the pups in one of there prison cells.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f166/dexterblue/pups2.jpg

And that is the corridor - look how many doors there are !!! sad.gif
feejb
That's just awful - why are they allowed to do this - is it too much to ask to stop these people? It's so obvious where these pups must come from and this organisation is so supporting puppy farmers it makes me sick. Just how many of these will end up in rescue in the next year - and those are probably the lucky ones. Unbelievable.

We should have a protest outside!
sally s
a work colleague of my sons bought a puppy from a manchester 'dog supermarket' around easter time. the puppy became ill after less than a week, with vomiting and diarrhoea. the vet who treated the puppy said it was a virus and all the other puppies in the litter would probably be affected.

when the new owner rang the seller to express concerns and warn them that the other puppies might be unwell too the only response he got was to be told that he could take the puppy back and 'pick another from a different litter/breed or have a full refund' if he wasnt happy!

he had no intention of taking the puppy back but asked what would happen to her if he did. the person answering the phone had to check but then came back to say the puppy would be seen by their vet, who would 'take any action needed'.

being optimistic, i suppose that might have meant that the puppy would get ongoing treatment until she was well enough to be sold again but somehow i dont think so, as she would have passed the optimum puppy selling age by then.

the average person just doesnt realise that there is any cruelty involved when they see little puppies in reasonable-ish surroundings looking cute. my sons friend was horrified when told about puppy farming and says he would never have put money in the pockets of the sellers had he known. the puppy has survived and will now have a good life hopefully but it makes you wonder how the rest of the litter fared sad.gif
whodunthat
The protest I agree with - I'm gonna go down and cause some hassle anyway.
poverton
I have sent them an e-mail, maybe you guys could do the same.

Penny
x
Dopeydog
As for the one in Manchester, Rescuewoman on here tried to organise a protest outside and I dont think she got many takers. These places are god awful and I know cos my Arthur is from there. Long story, he has many issues.

We visited the vets when we first got him 4 years ago now and he had ear mites and vomited up 3 live worms that were huge!!! He was 3 months old when we 'rescued' him he had had no human contact and was on his own in one of those prisons with no litter mates suffering from ear mites and worm infestation. I know we are wrong to have taken him but I just cant imagine what would have happened to him if we hadnt of got him. He has bitten from day 1 but is now nearly normal.

I would be the first to protest and try and educate people about these places.
whodunthat
that was one of my first thoughts about the ones that were left on their own....they looked so fed up - no litter mates, nothing to stimulate them, and then every so often some loud family comes along asks the staff to get it out - it's past about stroked, cuddled prodded and poked and then put back. I saw one family passing round a lab retriever the poor little thing looked terrified.
dogmaniac
can you not contact the local council and make complaints??
the council are the ones who give liecences to these places mad.gif

if people were to write and complain or go in personaly they may do something about it

i dont live in or near that area but i will be happy to send a letter to the council to complain if someone wants to pm me the address i will get onto it asap...

i will make out i was an tourist and make a big stink about the shop wink.gif
kash
Can I suggest that you write to your local paper with a full explanation of puppy farms as so many people have no idea about these and hopefully the majority of people will care.

I say this as when I got my dog last year, I had no idea of their existence until I started looking for him and found info on the internet about it. As these are in a pet shop, people will buy on a whim without doing any research.
Dopeydog
I dont want to sound pesamistic (sp?) but I dont think there is anything that can be done to stop these people. I swear the one in Manchester has been open for YEARS and there has been every attempt to close them but nothing works. Please let me know anything that you think will work and I will help.

They put puppies in on their own to make them people feel sorry for them and it works.
Fi
Bassets
Bichon Frise
Border Collies (none pedigree)
Jack Russells (none pedigree)
Cocker Spaniels
Cairns
Cavalier King Charles
Shih Tzus
Westies
Dobermanns
Poodles
Golden Retrievers
Beagles
Dogue De Bordeaux
Bearded Collies
Bull Mastiffs
Minature Schnauzers
Chow Chows
Labradors
Dalmatians
Samoyed
Boxers
Rottweiler
Lhasa Apsos
Old English Sheepdogs
English Bull Terriers
Yorkshire Terriers
Weimaraner
German Shepherds
Dachshunds
Norwegian Elkhounds
Pomeranians
Siberian Huskies
Staff Bull Terriers
Border Terriers
Scotties



Thats a list of the breeds they're advertising ohmy.gif Seriously big business mad.gif mad.gif

Disgusting sad.gif
Kelmisty
Can I say something, please dont shoot me down though, its only what I think a naive buyer might think when challenged.

Its clean, its easy to look at puppies, what is the difference in layout to a set of kennels?

We all know why we shouldnt buy puppies from these places, but the majority of puppy buyers dont and think they can buy it just like buying a hamster..... But all they see is cute puppies, kennels. At rescues all they see is cute dogs & puppies, kennels, but dont see the work done behind the scenes.

People need educating, protesting sounds good, but maybe educating people before they enter would be a better idea.

As to be honest they wont shut the place down if they have a licence. mad.gif mad.gif
ronnie
Posters to raise awareness here


http://www.dogs-r-us.org/posters.shtml
Akitas
Just a thought ... but rather than just a 'protest' which a lot of the uneducated buyers will ignore. Might it be good to do a flyer explaining briefly why it is bad to buy a puppy from this place (health, registration, puppy mills etc. ) and where they could get a 'better' puppy, ie. local rescue centre (complete with cute, healthy puppy pics), where to find a pedigree puppy in rescue or even a reputable breeder.

This way people can see WHY they shouldn't get a puppy from these places, not just because it's bad for the puppy, but because they're paying over the odds for a 'unknown quality' puppy and that it may cause them a lot of money (in vet bills) and trouble (toilet training). For those who think with their wallet to be paying top dollar for a puppy mill pup might make them think twice.

Pointing out the benefits of an older dog might be useful too.

In many cases if you just tell people not to do something, they'll do it just because they don't like to be told what to do. If you present a reasoned argument and let them make up their own mind then many people are willing to be pursuaded ... or educated. You won't reach all the people, but surely some is better than none?

Is there such a flyer in existance that could be used or could those on this board maybe club together and create one? I could maybe co-opt my brother into doing some of the design? But would need contributions to content.... would it be something of interest?
Kelmisty
Maybe also explaining where they can buy/get a puppy from?
PennyB
Our local indoor market in Cardiff centre used to sell pups until a few people used to demonstrate outside (usually at weekends as pups would arrive in their pens on a thurs/friday and get sold either then or saturday). Their persistence paid off. Use the local press as well.

In the local press there used to be an ad where they also sell pups in the small ads asking people if they bought pups form puppy farms or outlets if the pup was sick when they got them --- think it was backed by Trinity newspapers. Speak to the person on that number and they will be able to help you with a campaign or they may be reading this thread and get in touch with you anyway ninja.gif
dbpayne
am definitely going to put those posters up where I can find to let me!! Will get the OH to put some up in his station too.
I can't believe in this day and age it is still legal and "acceptable" to sell puppies

tbh though I think there are enough naive people in this world (country!) who still want puppies because they are "cute" (without stopping to think what they grow into!) My friend has just answered an ad on gumtree to rehome a 9 week old beagle despite my pleas to think about a rescue....there will always be people who feed this industry err.gif
jennybloggs
I remember whenI was young there was a market near londons brick lane called the puppy market! Innocently i used to go along and stroke and coo over puppies as a child (never allowed to get a dog from there as my mum thought it a disgrace) I used to see the same people demonstrating every sunday.. but eventually it did the trick. It does take time but eventually demonstrating handing out educational literature must make a difference.. mustnt it? (she says sounding slightly naive and hopeful!)

The key has got to be raising public awarenes.. a lot people are just naive to the dangers/horrors
Jeffrey's Mummy
I've tried on twice recently to persuade people not to buy from the place at Manchester. The first one bought a lab thinking they had bought a pedigree dog because it would have papers. The truth has sunk in now that they paid 650 for a pup with no history. The pup had health problems such as a serious worm infestation and infected ears resulting in hefty vet bills. when they complained they were told they could take it back and swap it but they wouldn't refund the vets bills. They kept the pup after I pointed out it might be PTS. After all this someone else who knew the first person was going at weekend to buy a lab puppy from the same place. His attitude was the council wouldn't let them trade if they were cruel. Some people realise that they wouldn't get a puppy if they were homechecked by a rescue or a reputable breeder and would have to go on a waiting list. They go to this place because its all too easy. Its been going at least 25 years with several name changes that I know of.
cammyboo
I'm not aware of the one in manchester so if anybody would like to pm me the details, I can advise people against it. I can't believe I've never heard of the place. Any protesting or anything else I can do, I will.

Penny
x
algernonfatpants
will u e mail me the details? in england soon and want to protest
Akitas
If you can send the majority of the prospective owners to somewhere more suitable to get puppies then it becomes commercially unviable for the puppies to be sold in this way. Thus they will stop doing it. So in addition to the 'don't buy here' there needs to be a 'buy here' message at the same time. Otherwise the thought will be 'but I want one' so they'll buy anyway. If you can offer a more attractive offer then it's more pursuasive.

In many (not all) cases it's a case of not thinking it through (how many here have 'acquired' a dog they weren't looking for?) and heart ruling the head or ignorance. Rather than an intention to perpetuate the problem. In some cases they just don't care, but if you can get the rest to not buy from there then it should close down.

Benefits that can be offered elsewhere include: ongoing advise and help with problems, advise about care and support should it all go wrong. Background on the puppy and (hopefully) a healthier puppy, vaccinations etc. are all 'selling' points for rescue/responsible breeder that aren't offered by the 'supermarket'. It sounds a bit heartless, but it may be better to present a number of financial and practical reasons to buy elsewhere in addition to the emotional one.

My feeling is that protesting without education would be less effective.
cammyboo
QUOTE(Akitas @ 19th Aug 2008, 12:12 pm) *

If you can send the majority of the prospective owners to somewhere more suitable to get puppies then it becomes commercially unviable for the puppies to be sold in this way. Thus they will stop doing it. So in addition to the 'don't buy here' there needs to be a 'buy here' message at the same time. Otherwise the thought will be 'but I want one' so they'll buy anyway. If you can offer a more attractive offer then it's more pursuasive.

In many (not all) cases it's a case of not thinking it through (how many here have 'acquired' a dog they weren't looking for?) and heart ruling the head or ignorance. Rather than an intention to perpetuate the problem. In some cases they just don't care, but if you can get the rest to not buy from there then it should close down.

Benefits that can be offered elsewhere include: ongoing advise and help with problems, advise about care and support should it all go wrong. Background on the puppy and (hopefully) a healthier puppy, vaccinations etc. are all 'selling' points for rescue/responsible breeder that aren't offered by the 'supermarket'. It sounds a bit heartless, but it may be better to present a number of financial and practical reasons to buy elsewhere in addition to the emotional one.

My feeling is that protesting without education would be less effective.


I think you are so right and will make sure I am totally educated before doing anything.
Fi
Found this company and found some threads about them on other dog forums. They *appear* to have a habit of registering on forums where there is discussion about them and posting as satisfied customers err.gif
Bevd
QUOTE(murphyandfi @ 19th Aug 2008, 2:43 pm) *

Found this company and found some threads about them on other dog forums. They *appear* to have a habit of registering on forums where there is discussion about them and posting as satisfied customers err.gif

I'd love them to try that here.

*chortle*
Fi
QUOTE(murphyandfi @ 19th Aug 2008, 2:43 pm) *

Found this company and found some threads about them on other dog forums. They *appear* to have a habit of registering on forums where there is discussion about them and posting as satisfied customers err.gif



QUOTE(Bevd @ 19th Aug 2008, 2:44 pm) *

I'd love them to try that here.

*chortle*

Bring it on devil.gif
sars x
*snort*! What a warm welcome they would have devil.gif tongue.gif
shortl
ohno.gif you don't want a warm welcome from Sars lol.gif
Akitas
QUOTE(cammyboo @ 19th Aug 2008, 2:18 pm) *

I think you are so right and will make sure I am totally educated before doing anything.


I am sure that you are totally educated smile.gif And that would apply to most people on here. However, I am constantly amazed at how totally ignorant/un-educated some people are and they are then surprised when I say that the pet store is totally the wrong place to get a dog, any dog. Often they think that as long as they don't want to show the dog then it's fine to get it from a pet store/BYB and aren't aware of the wider issues.

I agree there are some who simply don't care, but there are also many who simply don't know any better and are willing to be converted when the cons and alternatives are presented in a non-emotional manner. If you say 'don't get a dog from there as it's bad' they're likely to want to know what the alternatives are. If at the same time you can say .... but if you go to this rescue they can offer: advise, ongoing support, a better 'quality/healthy' pup and sell the whole rescue package there will be some/many that will walk away from the pet store puppy and rehome a rescue dog/puppy. Thus reducing demand for these puppies and making it less-viable to sell them.
poverton
I've just realised this is where Max is from sad.gif My husband responded with "Well, we'd better give him even more love then...."
theriddells
I am relatively new to dp, and i have learned sooooooo much from reading peoples posts, but until now I had never heard about these "petstores" mad.gif yikes.gif

I am interested , are they all down south (i live north of the border) , are they in existance in scotland?? lI would like someone to pm me the details and I will send them a stong worded email, hit.gif and I will also make sure everyone I know, knows exactly what these places are.

Oh and if there are some up here I may have to visit devil.gif
Vera
QUOTE(Akitas @ 19th Aug 2008, 12:12 pm) *

If you can send the majority of the prospective owners to somewhere more suitable to get puppies then it becomes commercially unviable for the puppies to be sold in this way. Thus they will stop doing it.


I have found a big problem though in actually getting the message across to people. I told my MIL for months not to get a puppy from Loot! She knew how I made sure that my own puppy was from a reputable breeder, she even came with me to look at the puppy (and his mum and half brother) and saw how he was brought up and what the living conditions were.
Yet, earlier this year, she told me that she saw an advert in Loots and got a puppy from a reputable breeder "with all the papers and everything"... When I looked at the "papers", they were a hand-written pedigree and a receipt... from a pet shop that sells loads of different breeds!!! She didn't even realise it was a pet shop and had no idea that she paid a lot of money for a puppy farm puppy! When they gave her a feable excuse why the mother wasn't with the pups, she believed it and went ahead with the purchase...

And all that after educating and giving as much as advice as I could... What chance do dogs have if I can't even get my own family to see what is going on?

Vera
katjab
QUOTE
Benefits that can be offered elsewhere include: ongoing advise and help with problems, advise about care and support should it all go wrong. Background on the puppy and (hopefully) a healthier puppy, vaccinations etc. are all 'selling' points for rescue/responsible breeder that aren't offered by the 'supermarket'. It sounds a bit heartless, but it may be better to present a number of financial and practical reasons to buy elsewhere in addition to the emotional one.


I think you hit the nail on the head there. The general public have a tendency to 'switch off' to welfare and protest. With the best of intentions, they believe that they are providing a loving home and therefore no issue exists. Perhaps a leaflet, with case studies geared to hitting the future issues the potential purchaser will themselves suffer. On the flipside, case studies of loving rescue dogs who will prove a far better bet.

Even if the issue doesn't immediately sink in, they may well refer to it in a quiet moment.
Pricivius
I've been to the one in Manchester and it is full of the cutest puppies and so many people "taking their pick". I can't remember the exact wording of the "pedigree" they claim the dogs have, but they do admit they are "not for show". err.gif

I took an 18-month old foster dog there a couple of times (there's a big pet shop there, although I wouldn't use it now) and several people commented on him and wanted to pet him. I explained that he was a foster dog and was looking for a home and they all replied that they wanted one of the cute puppies so it could grow up with their kids. I wished them luck with the crazy-chewy-puppy stages, the unknown quantity factor as well as the housetraining... Sad, very sad. sad.gif

What also upset me were huge framed photographs of Wayne Rooney with his Dogue de Bordeaux and Colleen McLoughlin with her cute white fluffy puppy (sorry -not good with small breeds!). It would seem they bought them there. sad.gif

I'd be up for a demo outside - no problem.
lizzy23
very sad we have seen a few dogs through with behavioural problems from the one in Manchester, just a suggestion, another forum that i am on, had a thread running about something they didn't agree with that they felt the general public should know about (it was actually the Dog lovers registration thingy) they kept bumping the thread up so that everytime someone googled it, the first thing that came up was the thread, and hopefully some people took the time to read it and were put off, i know the title of this thread has been changed because we don't want to advertise them (which i totally agree with) but maybe if we get enough replies on this thread if the place is googled we may come up high on the list and some people may read this thread and be put off before they go, just an idea
mokee
What worries me is what happens to any puppies they can't sell?
doggroomer
The thread could be re-named 'puppy supermarkets' or similar without actually naming the awful place.

If the 'credit crunch' gets worse and people stop buying puppies, hopefully some of these byb's and puppy farmers will think twice about continuing breeding. And it won't be a minute too soon. It would be very sad for the poor pups already born but most of them are probably destined for a terrible life in one way or another.

Chris
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