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> Humping Problem
nicola31
post 23rd Mar 2012, 3:32 pm
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Hi All, hoping someone can offer some advice with this one. Billy is our third rescue dog (one at a time) and all three have humped me when they first arrived (only me mad.gif ) and within a few weeks it has worn off. However, Billy has been with us about 7 months now and is still doing it.

He has occaisionally (about 3 times) humped my OH and once we had to stop him as he was about to hump my great nephew (3 years old) who was crouched down playing (not with Billy). Not good for a 36kg dog!!

I have tried to notice when and in what context he does it and here are they:

-After he has eaten his tea (never his breakfast - and he has the same food for both), I try to make sure I am not standing up when he comes to find me after tea (he only humps if I am on my feet)
-When I am putting my walking boots on to take him out
-When I stop playing tug / clicker training / playing ball and walk away

I try to avoid making sudden movements after playing etc but it doesn't always work.

Occaisionally he will just hump me at none of the above times, I haven't worked out why.

I try to manage the situation but I am getting fed up of a 36kg dog and his claws digging into me (he has gone through my jeans and cut my legs a couple of times).

When he has managed to get hold of me I push him off, fold my arms and don't move until I have a calm sit.

Any other suggestions for managing the situation and what to do if he does get me?

Thanks
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Devil
post 23rd Mar 2012, 10:01 pm
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how old is he? and is he neutered?

Not sure if the 'after tea' fits but the other examples sounds like when he is getting over excited and/or frustrated?

My two get silly when I start getting rady for walkies (not humping just bouncing around) and one thing that seems to be helping is getting ready (boots on, leads out etc) then doing NOTHING. literally just sitting on the sofa ignoring them until they settle. Dont know if you could try this.

Is he quite settled/chilled out at other times? Could you try giving him something else to do to signal the end of play/training time. for examp[le put the toy away and give hm a stuffed kong, or a chew etc to help him get over the frustration of the game ending?


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nicola31
post 24th Mar 2012, 9:20 am
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He is about 5 and is neutered, he doesn't really go for the kong and the nylabone he used to chew he doesn't bother with now. This morning I have picked up the balls to have a "try" at our version of sheep ball in the house and twice he has run to me and tried to hump my leg so I have stopped play. I wouldn't mind if I was really high pitched and exciting, but I just showed him the balls and put one on the floor.

He seems fairly chilled in the house, is quite "needy" in terms of always being with me but will settle on the floor when I am on the PC and settles on the sofa or the floor if I am in the living room. He always wants stroking if he is on the sofa with me, if I stop he gets off and goes to the window to see if he can bark at something to get my attention. I tend to call him away from the window and get him to lie down.

Outside I think he is quite stressed as he doesn't take treats, ignores me and pulls a lot. We are working well on this but we don't go far on our walks (to the end of the road) in order to try to keep him from losing focus and in order to avoid other dogs.

I take him on a field on a long line or to my mums with a bigger garden to play frisbee about 3 or 4 times a week for a run. He has joint problems so I don't want him running too much and not every day.
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nikirushka
post 24th Mar 2012, 10:34 am
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What is he? He sounds stressed generally to me, not just outside - the humping sounds like the expression of that stress, possibly a default behaviour, something he knows how to do and is confident doing so he reverts to that in times of heightened stress. A brand new game (sheepballs) for a dog like that could easily cause him to start humping as a kind of 'safety net' type behaviour - something he knows how to do that is familiar, and in itself it's stress relieving too.

Do you do much training with him? not formal stuff, just trick training, very low pressure stuff. I think that could help.

Training an incompatible behaviour could help too - something like a sit or down so that it's very strong, then you can cue it when you can see him about to try to hump. It'd give him a clear behaviour to do when he's feeling frustrated, so not only would he not be worrying about what to do to cope, but it would lower the stress levels too as you wouldn't be getting annoyed by the humping.

Something a bit more active might help too, rather than a sit or down (I use those initially for self control issues as they are basic and easy to teach, then move on to something more complex) - something like a retrieve that will physically take him away from you, so he can't hump, as well as engaging his brain, giving him a clear behaviour to carry out and distracting him (helping him forget about the humping).

I also wonder if the exercise is an issue causing extra frustration that's making things worse. What joint problems does he have? I understand you don't want him running but frisbee could potentially be higher impact than just running around generally (depending how he plays, of course).

There's also the possibility that the frisbee itself might be pushing his adrenalin up and making him a bit wired all the time - I have a dog like that, she can't have cuz balls or balls on ropes on walks as she gets so manic from them and loses her self control.
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muttlover2
post 24th Mar 2012, 10:46 am
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He sounds like he's not getting enough exercise. I don't know about humping as such. But surely walking a dog to the end of the street for 7 months with a few sessions of frisbee a week is not enough?


If you have issues with other dogs etc then can you not find a trainer or training class to help? Avoiding all exercise becuase you are avoiding things does not sound like a good idea to me as I can't see how it will help the original problem and I can't see how it will help for him to have no exercise either.
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nicola31
post 24th Mar 2012, 12:13 pm
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I don't just walk him to the end of the street and back, we are out for about 40mins at a time, loose lead walking changing direction if the lead goes tight so backwards and forwards, sometimes we manage to get up to the main road but then it is head down and pull and he is clearly not comfortable. He is allowed to sniff at any time on his walks, as long as he doesn't drag me.

I do a lot of clicker training with him in the house/garden, normally two sessions a day of about 15 mins, we have taught paw, hi 5, standing on a box, hand signals for sit and down, spin etc. I am working on picking the post up but he seems unsure of putting anything but toys in his mouth smile.gif which is maybe a good thing!!

I am worried about his exercise but I cannot be dragged around the streets with a dog who takes no notice of me and barks and lunges at other dogs, we work on attention which he is very good at in the house and garden but does not look at me even if I am doing a jig and whistling outside.

With the long line in the field he is off ahead of me, I can get him to change direction with a lets go or this way but he rarely walks anywhere near me. At the moment I have not done any recall with him as I am a bit overwhelmed by the other issues.

We have had a few training sessions, he would not cope in a class at the moment but we have had one to one sessions, I have tried to get in touch with the trainer by e-mail on three occasions in the last month to get some more help but with no response. If I don't get any response in the next few days I will have to look for another trainer err.gif

I am a big worrier and know this is not helping Billy but I really want to do right by him but I only seem to be making things worse err.gif
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muttlover2
post 24th Mar 2012, 1:19 pm
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What happens if he meets a dog when both are offlead?

He sounds very clever!

What breed is he?

It all sounds like my experience for the first while with my dog, so very sympathetic. My dog likes a ball - is there anything your dog really likes you could use to teach recall? He may just be anxious and wired.

I am also sympathetic on the trainer front - it can be very hard (in my experience) to get the good ones to call you back! But sounds like you could do with a bit of help and confidence. Do you know any other confident dog people you could walk with?

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muttlover2
post 24th Mar 2012, 1:24 pm
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QUOTE
main road but then it is head down and pull and he is clearly not comfortable


Ok - same as mine was.

Could he be frightened of traffic?

I think that whilst you want to get him used to traffic that trying to teach him looselead stuff (I've never managed to do this!) whilst he is scared might not be the easiest way. Have you got some quieter areas you can both go and enjoy and destress and also do some leadwork if you want to - and then practice the street stuff separately? If you are taking him to a field to run - could you do that daily and do some training with games or walk with him in quieter place where you are more likely to get him to listen.

A stressed dog can't listen to you well I found. My dog found traffic very stressful. He is good with it now. I taught him most things with a football and we went on longer walks too and that was difficult for me at the start but got better.
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nikirushka
post 24th Mar 2012, 3:04 pm
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Have you tried using anything to at least ease the pulling while you work on his stress levels and other issues?

My ball-issue dog has up until recently found lead walking extremely stressful, I have to walk her on a harness with a front ring to take the edge off the pulling IF I lead walk her just so I can hold her safely. For the most part I drive my dogs to their walks though to avoid the stress of lead walking. I'm only just starting to increase how much of it I do with her, after over a year of her being here.

Changing direction on lead could actually be making things more stressful for him by making a worrying walk unpredictable - you need him less stressed before you do any work the lead walking, really. At the moment he'll not be able to learn, if he's too stressed. Once he starts to relax a bit you can do LLW with the clicker.

Re. the recall - you can start working on it at a very basic level, just really reinforce any hint of looking at you. My youngest had no recall or attention span to me out and about to start with - not stress for him, just sheer excitement but by simply rewarding any good stuff he did (he was on a flexi all the time at this stage so he couldn't run off and ignore me), his recall formed itself and I could build on it. He now has a really good recall, bar a few other-dog excitement issues lol.gif
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Dalsmum
post 24th Mar 2012, 3:20 pm
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here is nicola31 's earlier post for some background information

http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.ph...52322&st=15
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Dalsmum
post 24th Mar 2012, 3:39 pm
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Have a read of Jenny Wren's thread. You might pick up some tips there.
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nicola31
post 24th Mar 2012, 4:28 pm
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He is never off lead so don't know how he would be off lead around dogs, to be honest I try to avoid them. We live opposite the field so generally I can see if there is anyone in there and if so I leave it til later.

I think he is a little worried about the traffic, but we only cross the road and then the estate opposite is fairly traffic free. Our road is very quiet. I have not always kept him to short walks, but I am trying different things to help him cope, maybe they are not all working but I am trying.

My issue with say having him on a flexi is he is so far in front of me, if a dog comes round the corner and he starts lunging I have no control over him. I have a mekuti harness but I can't seem to get on with this as he is always a step ahead so doesn't seem to work (or I am not doing it properly) I walk him on a fleece harness and the lead attached to the back.

We went on the field on a shorter long line (30ft) and I took the tug ball but no pressure with throwing it, he just carried it around and if he dropped it and moved away I threw it (3 times in half an hour). He was almost always at the full length of the line but about three times he turned back to look at me so I clicked and praised him (is it wrong to use the clicker and not treat? - I would treat but he doesn't take them, should I just verbally praise?)

On one part of the field he lay down and wasn't for moving, so I sat down with him (about 3 ft away) after a minute or so he looked at me and I praised and treated and he actually took the treat. That is the first time he has taken a treat on the field.

I guess I need to get someone more experienced to help me with his body language to make sure I am not making things worse for him, facial expressions and his mouth are hard to see as he is in front of me so much.

I will have another read of jennywrens thread and see what I can pick up.

He is a collie, possibly cross and his pic should be below wub.gif
Image
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nikirushka
post 24th Mar 2012, 5:46 pm
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I don't get on with mekutis at all, just can't get to grips with them.

I used to use a pets at home control harness on Raine (has a front ring for double ended leads), now I just use a normal walking harness but still clip one end of the lead to the front. Works just as well.

River I use a premier easy walk (well, homemade version of) and it does the trick nicely with her.
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Dalsmum
post 24th Mar 2012, 8:09 pm
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Going back to your query re humping- do you convey to him that it is not acceptable? While ignoring can extinguish a behaviour I have found sometimes with a determined dog you need more.

What I would try is give verbal signal- mine is 'uh,uh' - take hold of his collar( or have a short houseline on him) and lead him out of the room for a short time out.

I would not speak anymore than the verbal correction, just quietly lead him out of the room.

When he is allowed back in all is forgotten.

I would do the same when he barks at the window,

By telling him to lie down you are giving him the attention that he wants- I've had one of these. He used to go and pinch somthing he shouldn't have and parade in front of us with it in his mouth as if to say 'you can't ignore me now'.

or , when you stop stroking him tell him 'all done' and tell him to go and lie down. That way he doesn't get the chance to go to the window.

To try and make him less exciteable after his dinner I woud try scattering his dinner in the garden so he has to search it out. Sniffing is a calming behaviour and he is using his brain.

I know you said he doesn't like a kong but if you put his dinner in it he may be interested when he is hungry. No kong. no dinner.

If you feed kibble try a little cream cheese in it to make the kibble stick in it.

Or what about a buster cube or treat ball where you put his dinner in and he has to move it about to get his dinner to drop out.


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Carolynleah
post 24th Mar 2012, 8:34 pm
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Nicola was it you I saw yesterday, at the top of the lane? Going forwards a few yards then back? If it was, I was the short woman with a brown and white springer spaniel, who waved at you (me, that is, not Jasper!). Jasper isn't mine, I walk him for a friend, but you may have seen me with my own white staffie or golden cocker. Nothing useful to add, just thought I would say hello! smile.gif
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