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> Dog To Be Put Down, after biting a child who hugged him
nikirushka
post 21st Sep 2017, 1:50 pm
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QUOTE(mokee @ 21st Sep 2017, 1:52 pm) *

I also think the situation is getting so much more complicated now with the introduction of puppy farms, illegally imported puppies from Europe and foreign rescue dogs who aren't used to living as pets. How can a puppy that has been indiscriminately bred from any dogs they happened to lay their hands on, brought up in a filthy shed with little/no human contact ever be expected to become a well rounded family pet?

I do think there are additional complications nowadays in that in the 'good old days' a dog that bit was PTS, end of story. As harsh as that might have been for the dogs, it did mean that dogs with iffy temperaments weren't passing those genes on to the next generation. Nowadays vets and owners are far more likely to try to 'rehabilitate' reactive dogs and even breed from them. I belong to a facebook group for owners of reactive dogs and I've lost count of the amount of times I've read something like "I know my dog bites, he's bitten two people already, but I don't want to muzzle him".


Yep, all of those things too. The foreign rescue thing really concerns me - yes, some street dogs make fabulous pets as Fever often said from her experience but many really, really don't. And bringing them from abroad makes it more complicated as far as returning dogs goes (and that's with the decent rescues who have backup).

And yes, the rehab thing is something I think about often. I am fully on the rehabilitation side with dogs that nip or bite, but at the same time, almost everything is against them and it is much harder as it used to be because of the whole thing where it's all everyone else's fault - allowing dogs to run up to others then blaming them if they bite, and incidents like poor Jed. When I rehabbed my first biter, it was pretty easy - no-one approached uninvited, and dogs weren't allowed to run up to a dog on lead. With Ren, people do keep their distance because she looks mean but dogs have been allowed to run over and it's completely wrecked whatever chance I may have had for fixing her dog issues.

So part of me thinks that euthanasing any dog that nipped or worse was a very sensible idea and would actually be more in keeping with a lot of peoples' attitudes towards dogs these days, but our understanding of their behaviour, emotional state, retraining and so on has come so far that it would be very difficult to justify euthanasia in all but the worst cases.

I too can see that day coming and I absolutely dread it - I'm hopeful however that it's a long way off because as a country, despite our shortcomings in this area, we are feirce defenders of our dogs' freedom so it would be met with serious resistance. And I'll be there, speaking out for the negatives of confining active animals on lead.

What would really help is more education. Somewhere round here, a school does a lesson on how to safely interact with dogs and from what I've heard, the results have been brilliant - where before kids were just doing what this toddler did, after the lesson they were politely asking to stroke dogs before trying to touch and being calmer.
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woofgang
post 21st Sep 2017, 2:11 pm
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Theres a good book for kids and parents about this written by Catherine Pickles Its called "Worzel says "Hello Will you Be My friend?""
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Annieskel
post 21st Sep 2017, 2:37 pm
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QUOTE(mokee @ 21st Sep 2017, 1:52 pm) *

Was literally just talking about this last night with OH - we both wandered if the grandparents had pushed for PTS in this case due to guilt, because if it is the dogs fault that their grandchild needed plastic surgery, it would take some of the guilt away from them? I must admit that this case is really striking a chord with me because if some random child had thrown their arms around either of my collies, they'd probably have received a face full of teeth in return too - which is why my dogs don't often go out where there are people and are muzzled when they do.


We are seeing cases were dogs are supposed to have bitten but there hasn't even been a dent in the skin let alone drawn blood, these dogs have been reported to the police and the dogs seized. When asked for proof the person who was supposed to have been bitten hasn't been able to produce it. In some cases it is just a canine tooth that has broken the skin. Every case the person who was alleged to be bitted ignored the owner.

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I also think the situation is getting so much more complicated now with the introduction of puppy farms, illegally imported puppies from Europe and foreign rescue dogs who aren't used to living as pets. How can a puppy that has been indiscriminately bred from any dogs they happened to lay their hands on, brought up in a filthy shed with little/no human contact ever be expected to become a well rounded family pet?

I do think there are additional complications nowadays in that in the 'good old days' a dog that bit was PTS, end of story. As harsh as that might have been for the dogs, it did mean that dogs with iffy temperaments weren't passing those genes on to the next generation. Nowadays vets and owners are far more likely to try to 'rehabilitate' reactive dogs and even breed from them. I belong to a facebook group for owners of reactive dogs and I've lost count of the amount of times I've read something like "I know my dog bites, he's bitten two people already, but I don't want to muzzle him".

I can see a day coming when all dogs have to be leashed and muzzled in public at all times.


At the beginning of June I was asked if I would help owners who had adopted dogs from a Romanian rescue when they had problems, most of these problems was because the owner didn't understand that the dogs needed time and space and they were puppies not adult dogs which are easier. One lady was different, she had a dog that was about a 1 to 1.5 years old who was terrified of people. Each time I told her to let the dog make the decision I was told they were but they were not. This dog couldn't be touched and they wanted to touch her and they put a year on her being abled to be cuddled. No matter what I said it was ignored. 3 months after getting the dog they got a supposed behaviourist in who insisted on touching this little girl, she went berserk and it was pure luck that nobody was hurt and was against the rescue's advice. The lady let this man take the dog back home with him to work with her, 5 days later it was all arranged for her to go back to the people who fostered her in Romania and she trusted, he was able to touch her but it had taken him a long time to do it.

I have since left this rescue because the person who has it has handed it over to someone else for a few months because of what is happening in her life, during this time they have send sick puppies across saying they are fit and healthy, one dog has to have a leg amputated and major surgery on his hip. I don't want anything to do with a rescue like this.

I have heard of that Facebook group and been asked by quite a few members to join but won't, I have had some of the posts sent to me and I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut. There are lots of dogs who have to be muzzled now that have never done anything wrong, their owners have been to hell and back fighting to keep these dogs alive including service dogs, yet dogs that have bitten several times, which the DDA is supposed to protect us from, are running free to continue biting.


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Dalsmum
post 21st Sep 2017, 5:36 pm
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Attitudes to dgos have changed drastically over the years.

When I was a child dogs ran free and we were taught not to touch a strange dog or a dog that was eating. If we got bitten the first question was 'what did you do to the dog?'.

Dogs are now a must have commodity. Some are substitute children. They are expected to fit in and often not stimulated.

I agree that I think too much is demanded of dogs as far as behaviour is concerned. They are expected to accept whatever is done to them.

Part of the problem is the attitude that children are the most important people on this planet and should be able to do anything they want, including hugging a strange dog.

A dog owner told a toddler who ran out of a shop and stroked her dog that she should not touch dogs she doesn't know without asking. The mother who was following remarked 'but you can't stop an 18 month old doing it'.

My kids were taught that from they could crawl as I had a dog who did not like people stroking her- no matter what age.
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Annieskel
post 22nd Sep 2017, 9:43 am
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Of course you can stop an 18 month old child from doing things, it is called teaching or training, parents are far too lazy to teach their children now, they put earning money ahead of their children. I have stopped children in the past when their parents haven't, when they objected I just told them that if they think it is ok for their child to be in danger I don't, it soon shut them up.


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mokee
post 22nd Sep 2017, 12:45 pm
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QUOTE(Annieskel @ 22nd Sep 2017, 10:43 am) *

Of course you can stop an 18 month old child from doing things, it is called teaching or training, parents are far too lazy to teach their children now, they put earning money ahead of their children. I have stopped children in the past when their parents haven't, when they objected I just told them that if they think it is ok for their child to be in danger I don't, it soon shut them up.


I don't think its laziness, personally. I think some people have misunderstood, or perhaps taken the backlash against physically punishing children too far and think that not using physical punishment means that you don't have to teach boundaries at all.
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Ragsysmum
post 22nd Sep 2017, 2:33 pm
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QUOTE(mokee @ 22nd Sep 2017, 1:45 pm) *

I don't think its laziness, personally. I think some people have misunderstood, or perhaps taken the backlash against physically punishing children too far and think that not using physical punishment means that you don't have to teach boundaries at all.


Most parents round here are so busy on their mobile phones they don't even notice what their kids are doing!
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Annieskel
post 22nd Sep 2017, 8:24 pm
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QUOTE(mokee @ 22nd Sep 2017, 1:45 pm) *

I don't think its laziness, personally. I think some people have misunderstood, or perhaps taken the backlash against physically punishing children too far and think that not using physical punishment means that you don't have to teach boundaries at all.



Round here it is laziness, parents both on the dole, fast food for meals as they don't cook, plenty of money to but drinks, cigarettes and the lottery. The children are left to fend for themselves.

When I ran a pre-school playgroup we had children in that had never been told 'no', their parents worked hard, the children were well fed etc. these children were different, their parents did interact with them even though they were never refused anything.


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