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> First Time Dog Owners
woofgang
post 3rd May 2017, 9:22 pm
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I will fess up to being very slightly mischievous in starting this thread..... Our very first dog EVER (neither of us had dogs as kids) was a weimaraner which was then (?still is) considered not a breed for a first time owner. So when people say Oh xxx breed is not for a first time owner...... I do wonder what breed is.....

I do get that certain breeds need very very specialised ownership and circumstances and that this usually means experience of ownership of similar but less challenging breeds first....but that is slightly different from saying that xxx breed is not for the first time owner....so how many dogs should you have before its ok to have one?.....and what makes those breeds different from other breeds?
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Carolynleah
post 4th May 2017, 6:51 am
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I think the personality and physical ability of the owner comes into it too - some people have more patience than others, some enjoy a challenge, some are more able to undertake the amount of exercise needed by certain breeds. I think there is no 'one size fits all' when it comes to choosing a dog smile.gif
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mokee
post 4th May 2017, 10:05 am
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QUOTE(woofgang @ 3rd May 2017, 10:22 pm) *

I will fess up to being very slightly mischievous in starting this thread..... Our very first dog EVER (neither of us had dogs as kids) was a weimaraner which was then (?still is) considered not a breed for a first time owner. So when people say Oh xxx breed is not for a first time owner...... I do wonder what breed is.....

I do get that certain breeds need very very specialised ownership and circumstances and that this usually means experience of ownership of similar but less challenging breeds first....but that is slightly different from saying that xxx breed is not for the first time owner....so how many dogs should you have before its ok to have one?.....and what makes those breeds different from other breeds?


I can see exactly where you're coming from, I really can - but if I'm being 100% honest here I think that anything that makes a new owner think harder about what they expect from a dog before choosing which breed to welcome into their family is a good thing, and if that happens to be a breeder stating that this breed is not suitable for first time owners, then I'm all for it.

Because the 'average' first time dog owner who is just looking for a good family pet for the kiddies to play with is often absolutely horrified when they bring their new puppy home. They're shocked that it wees on the carpet and poos in its bed, it nips at the children and barks in the night, basically that it doesn't just slot seemlessly into family life but actually needs some imput from them to be a happy, mentally and physically healthy dog. Now imagine that the puppy they brought home was a Malinois, or one of the European Sheep Guarding breeds or a Husky, or any dog that takes any more effort than the average affable Lab or Staffy cross.

You only need to look at 'those' websites to see the three and four month old puppies looking for a new home to see what I'm talking about. So no, I actually don't have a problem with discouraging brand new dog owners from taking on some breeds and think it is eminently sensible in most cases. Any first time dog owner who really wants a certain breed should have to prove to the breeder/rescue centre that they fully understand what they are taking on and are ready for the challenge.


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Kanie
post 4th May 2017, 12:07 pm
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lol.gif Nothing like being quoted out of context!

I thought I'd made it quite clear that I was referring to some people who had many years' experience in the show ring and were considered well-versed in their breed when I made the comments about having different priorities to the average pet owner.

I was in no way suggesting that everybody who has a dog that they have concluded is better off on-lead for the dog's own safety or the safety of others is somehow lacking in moral fibre, lazy or incompetent.

I'm happy to stand corrected on show-bred Lakies: I've met around 10 or so and they've all been very sensible, good natured little dogs and happy off-lead smile.gif I do try to qualify most things I write with the fact that there are exceptions and every breed is made up of individual dogs etc., but sometimes, there just isn't time to type a caveat after every paragraph.

I'll give some examples about the sorts of situations I was referring to and I'm sure you'll see they are nothing like anyone on DP...

Expert 1 - Very helpful, well-respected and successful breeder, exhibitor, judge and groomer of terriers took in a friend's dog to groom. The dog was generally skittish when being groomed and the owners as 1st timers, were at a bit of a loss. The dog was returned to them totally shut down and they were advised that they had been too soft and this breed needed 'a good slap' every now and then because nothing else worked.

Expert B - similar to the above, kept his dogs kennelled with entire males facing one another. He maintained the breed could 'never' be let off the lead because they liked to fight too much. The fact was, his dogs were deliberately raised in a situation where they were deprived of the opportunity to socialise, so that when they got into the show ring, they would be in their toes, tail erect and twitching, ears forward and looking like coiled springs - because that is what the judge wanted to see.

Expert C - person with many years' experience in a breed used for hunting is fond of saying, "you can't let then off the lead because they would just go off hunting and not come back". The truth is that in pre-dog show days, when the dogs were used for their original purpose, they were seldom seen on leads and were treated very differently (i.e. not kept in cages all day and let out only for short bursts on-lead) This is an example of a person who has loads of useful knowledge about their breed - again, a lovely person in many ways - and willing to talk to novices...but totally lacking any appreciation of the time it takes with any breed to establish a good recall and the amount of exercise and mental stimulation needed to really get the best out of this breed.


I hope that clears up any misunderstanding!



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Ianr
post 10th May 2017, 2:48 pm
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unsure.gif I never mentioned "lacking in moral fibre, lazy or incompetent.", "terrible at training my dog" etc. Ironically there is probably less difference in opinions here than some seem to imagine.

I don't disagree that - until you have mastered recall with them - a long line could be a god send. I just wouldn't want to have to rely on one forever.

I don't disagree that some dogs will take much more work than others to get there. I merely disagree that because it hasn't happened with a particular dog / trainer / within a particular period that it can't ever be done by anyone.

I don't think it was a cop out - not my dog, not my area, not a dog I've ever met, not an owner I've met either - I have no reason to claim that I could (or couldn't) be any more successful than someone else has been. I merely say that it could be done ......... by someone at some stage rather than that it can never be done. If it hasn't worked in a year try it for two. Try a different method or trainer if necessary but don't give up. There is sometimes an innate tendency in humans to not want to accept that someone else might manage to do something they had not yet managed to do.

There are of course some dogs I wouldn't pick for some homes - some times at all let alone as a first dog - I've just been looking a rescue place for a "chowski", went to take a look at him for an interested rescue & was rather surprised to find his owners had got him from a breeder having fancied a chow - always liked the look of them apparently - yet had never had any dog at all before. Talk about jumping in at the deep end ?

This post has been edited by Ianr: 10th May 2017, 2:56 pm
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woofgang
post 10th May 2017, 4:23 pm
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QUOTE(Ianr @ 10th May 2017, 2:48 pm) *

unsure.gif I never mentioned "lacking in moral fibre, lazy or incompetent.", "terrible at training my dog" etc. Ironically there is probably less difference in opinions here than some seem to imagine.

I don't disagree that - until you have mastered recall with them - a long line could be a god send. I just wouldn't want to have to rely on one forever.

I don't disagree that some dogs will take much more work than others to get there. I merely disagree that because it hasn't happened with a particular dog / trainer / within a particular period that it can't ever be done by anyone.

I don't think it was a cop out - not my dog, not my area, not a dog I've ever met, not an owner I've met either - I have no reason to claim that I could (or couldn't) be any more successful than someone else has been. I merely say that it could be done ......... by someone at some stage rather than that it can never be done. If it hasn't worked in a year try it for two. Try a different method or trainer if necessary but don't give up. There is sometimes an innate tendency in humans to not want to accept that someone else might manage to do something they had not yet managed to do.

There are of course some dogs I wouldn't pick for some homes - some times at all let alone as a first dog - I've just been looking a rescue place for a "chowski", went to take a look at him for an interested rescue & was rather surprised to find his owners had got him from a breeder having fancied a chow - always liked the look of them apparently - yet had never had any dog at all before. Talk about jumping in at the deep end ?

Not sure what you are basing your belief on then......
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