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Dogpages encourages owners to learn the skills to train their dogs with modern non-coercive methods and not to train with pain. Posts and advice given must reflect this policy.

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> Advice - Biting / Moiuthing Staffi
Annieskel
post 2nd Nov 2016, 4:48 pm
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QUOTE(woofgang @ 2nd Nov 2016, 10:58 am) *


I donít separate mine because they will separate themselves when they need to but yes, while they love each others (and my) company, they will sometimes take themselves away to have a sleep upstairs or one will go outside in the garden and the other will come and ask for a cuddle.

We are back to knowing your dog again!



Once a dog has settled with mine I don't separate them, if they want peace and quiet they take themselves off to where they can get it. Cyril does like to torment the others so I do have to watch him and stop him when he starts but this is by distraction, I call him for a cuddle and he his happy then. He doesn't torment the other dogs when he wants a cuddle, he enjoys being a pest.


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Fever
post 2nd Nov 2016, 6:39 pm
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QUOTE(woofgang @ 2nd Nov 2016, 10:58 am) *

“tired dogs are the ones that lose their tempers with each other”
That’s a very important point and its not just other dogs they will lose their tempers with. As with children (and some adults!) its the difference between being pleasantly tired and relaxed and over tired and fractious. I see this every year at this time when we get too many fireworks and this year we had a summer of bad weather as well. They sometimes find it difficult to relax and sleep, even though they are given melatonin. They don’t get to the loss of temper point but I see them using more calming signals to each other and to me.

I don’t separate mine because they will separate themselves when they need to but yes, while they love each others (and my) company, they will sometimes take themselves away to have a sleep upstairs or one will go outside in the garden and the other will come and ask for a cuddle.

We are back to knowing your dog again!

We are! But also I think what is striking is that your dogs are able to express that preference, and act on it. Among the clients I see, it's actually quite rare for dogs to have the confidence to take themselves off. Vast numbers of dogs I see actually follow their owners everywhere they go in the house, for example. Owners think this is sweet, but when I point out how exhausting they themselves would find that - if they had to get up and follow someone every single time they went to the loo, answered the phone, went upstairs, went into the kitchen... they soon start to understand why their dog might be absolutely knackered. It also shows such a big lack of confidence and autonomy. (Woofgang, I am imagining your two are quite autonomous creatures by nature!)

I think when you have that situation of dogs not being able to relax or take themselves off, you have to start by physically imposing it (not in a horrible way, obviously!) by giving each dog somewhere separate tjhat is quiet and warm to relax. I had to do this for my collie everytime she had eaten, otherwise she went into a humping frenzy and also bullied the other dogs by pestering them to play when they didn't want to. I made a nice comfy bed in the cupboard under the stairs, with a heater and a stairgate so she could still see what was going on, and believe it or not some zen music on a little CD player! Riddley's meditation room ... to begin with I had to physically show her the space and give her a bone in there for her to settle, but now she takes herself in there after she's eaten and dozes for a few hours. No stairgate, she comes out when she's ready, and the bullying and also barking at sounds outside the house have pretty much stopped unless there's been a lot of disruption and she's anxious.

So yes,I still separate a lot, even with dogs that get on well and are good friends, because they aren't always able to do it themselves, though they always get better at it the more I do it.

This post has been edited by Fever: 2nd Nov 2016, 6:42 pm
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woofgang
post 2nd Nov 2016, 7:20 pm
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I think HPRís generally have to be confident to make their own choices because of the job they were bred for. If they are worried then they stick close to me and they do like to know where I am.
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traceymcl
post 2nd Nov 2016, 8:16 pm
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QUOTE(Fever @ 1st Nov 2016, 9:23 pm) *

If you have read through all that, I take my hat off to you tracey! What's a typical day for your dogs?


I did read through all of that. Sounds so peaceful and lovely. No wonder your dogs are so calm. smile.gif

We don't really have a typical day as such - and not much of a routine on any given day although over the course of a week, there is a bit of a structure.

On Mondays and Tuesdays my partner is usually at my house. I'll get up about 6 and give the dogs a walk before I go into work - the walk might be a lead walk and sniff around the streets, a trip to the river to swim and fetch toys, an on-lead jog or an off lead run around and sniffing wildlife scent. We all walk together on these mornings. Then the dogs have breakfast. A bit later, a snack when I leave for work just after 8. Then they go back to bed and sleep till early afternoon.

My partner might walk them a bit after that although he doesn't every day. I get home at about 5:30 and they might go for a walk then (although not for the next few weeks since Cuillin is bothered by fireworks and we tend to get some before and after bonfire night in the evenings). In the summer after work I might walk them individually as it's light later.

Then we might do a bit of training - some finding of hidden, scented objects or learning to move in non-habitual ways or maybe learning a bit of self control (mostly for Roxy).

Then the dogs will have dinner. A bit later, they'll have a snack. Then they'll probably settle down for the night. Cuillin usually takes himself off upstairs to bed at about 8:30 and sometimes he'll lie on the bed when I get there a little bit later for a while - he prefers to sleep on his own bed so will usually move to there after a while. Roxy tends to stay downstairs in the evening and will often stay on the couch for an hour or two after I go to bed. Then she comes upstairs. Right now she likes to sleep in the bed, under the covers - although that may change as she settles in more (she's only been here about 7 months and had a very unsettled time before she moved in with us).


On Wednesdays I am at work in the office and my partner is also out at work. So the dogs and I go for a half hour run normally before work. On Wednesdays, the dogs have a small snack when we get in and then their breakfast scattered - Roxy upstairs and Cuillin downstairs - when I leave. Then I come home for lunch and we go for another walk for roughly half an hour. They get lunch scattered - Roxy upstairs and Cuillin downstairs - when I leave. The doors in the house are left open so that they can be together if they want to after they've eaten. The evening routine is the same.

Thursdays I work half a day so they tend to get one longer walk at some point in the day - with everything else being the same.

I don't work Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays and those days really have no routine - but we will usually walk each day. Between 1 - 3 hours usually.

Cuillin is 9 years old now. He has lived with me since he was 6 weeks old. What interests me about him now is the dramatic change. He grew up, getting shorter walks and almost always those were on his own. I had 3 dogs then and pretty much always walked them individually. I felt it was the only way I could meet their varied requirements for walks. They all got way more rest and down time and this was all fine with them. I don't always enjoy walking more than one dog at a time and much prefer to do one to one walks.

About 3 years ago, he became an only dog when Calgacus died. Cuillin coped really well with both Calgacus and Katie's deaths. He was so used to having time on his own that he just seemed fine as an only dog. Since that happened, we have started walking further and having more varied walks just because I've had more time for walking Cuillin without the needs of the other dogs to worry about.

Now Cuillin is emphatic that he does not like staying at home while Roxy is walked. We are working on it and he can cope now but he doesn't like it. My partner reports that Cuillin stamps around the house sighing if I leave him and take Roxy out. He'll eat food left for him but then he's pretty p***** off. The first time I left him, he barked for the entire time I was out (I recorded him).

Roxy came to me with really quite severe SA and getting her to cope with being left entirely alone is a work in progress. I can do it without her freaking out but she's not happy about it yet.

I'm sure that I'll get there with both of them but lots of separation isn't possible right now.

So, much as it doesn't suit me, I walk them together most of the time and we go for really quite long walks - because that is what Cuillin has become used to and Roxy seems fine with it too. They seem to prefer the compromises that happen with there being two of them and only one of me on the walks to being split up for walks so that's what we do.

I should say that they don't end the day exhausted - far from it. In fact, they can be quite lively in the evenings sometimes. They are both quite physically fit and are both psychologically used to being out and about a fair amount. I don't think it is as tiring for them as it would be for dogs who are used to less exercise and a quieter life.

I do watch them closely as well for signs that they find each other problematic because they are together so much but so far they do seem to get on really well. I wouldn't have adopted Roxy had it not been for the fact that Cuillin likes her so much.

One day a couple of weeks ago, Roxy managed to shut herself in the spare bedroom while I was at work. I record them when I'm at work and as I expected she did lots of whining and some barking while she was shut in. She coped better than I thought she would but she clearly wasn't happy. Cuillin, however, really surprised me. I thought he'd take the opportunity to have a quiet rest on his own like he's been used to but he did some really quite distressed sounding barking and moved around more than he usually does when I'm at work. I think that right now, they both want to be together so I let them - they can be apart if they want to.

I sometimes wonder if its just that Roxy is a brindle bull breed - like Calgacus but much smaller. Cuillin and Calgacus never had a single cross word between them, never so much as a growl from the day Cuillin moved in until the day Calgacus died. They just adored each other so much. Katie was much more difficult - her health problems made her quite short tempered with the other dogs and none of us quite knew when she'd lash out at them. We went through periods of time where they needed so much time apart from Katie that she would go and live with a friend of mine for half of each week. She was happy and it gave the boys a break from the stress that they experienced when Katie was there.

I don't know for sure but so far Cuillin and Roxy look like they want to be together so I don't split them up very often - much as it would suit me to do so more often. smile.gif
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traceymcl
post 3rd Nov 2016, 8:29 am
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I forgot to mention too that we tend to incorporate some TTouch bodywork and sometimes groundwork into our days too - no particular habit about when but it is part of daily life for us. smile.gif
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ceri1
post 3rd Nov 2016, 2:51 pm
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When Spot was in Season, I had to separate Ellie from the others! She could not cope with Spot and Beans flirting... If the others are playing, I sometimes put Ellie away so she relaxes rather than policing the others.
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