IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> Training advice

Dogpages encourages owners to learn the skills to train their dogs with modern non-coercive methods and not to train with pain. Posts and advice given must reflect this policy.

For serious problems, owners should always seek good professional advice.

5 Pages V < 1 2 3 4 5 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Advice - Biting / Moiuthing Staffi
traceymcl
post 5th Oct 2016, 11:39 am
Post #31


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 2570
Joined: 20 Nov 03
From: Stirlingshire, Scotland
Member No.: 6485



QUOTE(phoenix21 @ 5th Oct 2016, 10:27 am) *

Once she gets fully mature around 1yr i want to start canifit with her which might help get rid of excess energy lol.


I think that's a great idea. I adopted a 5 year old staffy this year. She was very stressed and unsettled when she came here and running with her made all the difference to her stress levels and ability to calm down. I've been doing cani cross for years now with the dog I already had - started running when he was an adolescent because he had so much energy that wasn't getting usefully used. He's 9 now and I'm convinced that regular running has kept him fit and healthy.

The dogs did all the training runs I did for the Glasgow half marathon this year with no bother at all.

Staffys are - in my opinion - great running dogs. They are a good size, tend to be super keen on whatever they are doing with their people and are dry and clean quickly and easily even after very muddy runs. smile.gif

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Annieskel
post 5th Oct 2016, 3:48 pm
Post #32


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 3675
Joined: 4 May 09
Member No.: 44743



QUOTE(phoenix21 @ 5th Oct 2016, 10:27 am) *

Its good to know people's personal experiences too as to what works. Yes a behaviourist will know best but i like to weigh up options and see what works for some people.

She went to doggy day care on Monday run by a very highly recommended dog trainer (and quite expensive!!). She came back a dream lol. She had 2 hour long walks and played with 2 other dogs all day. They did some training with her and said she was no bother. She was exhausted at the end of the day. Maybe thats the key...tire her out!! They noticed as well shes not bothered with kongs etc but suggested frozen bananas to keep her occupied too.

Once she gets fully mature around 1yr i want to start canifit with her which might help get rid of excess energy lol.



Personally I wouldn't take a 10 month old dog on 2 hour long walks then play all day with other dogs, she is still developing her bones and muscles. Yes she needs exercise but it is easy to over exercise an energetic dog. Replacing some of the physical exercise with mind games will tire her just as much.





--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Fever
post 5th Oct 2016, 5:46 pm
Post #33


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 3699
Joined: 24 Feb 08
From: West Midlands
Member No.: 37085



QUOTE(Annieskel @ 5th Oct 2016, 4:48 pm) *

Personally I wouldn't take a 10 month old dog on 2 hour long walks then play all day with other dogs, she is still developing her bones and muscles. Yes she needs exercise but it is easy to over exercise an energetic dog. Replacing some of the physical exercise with mind games will tire her just as much.

^^ This. Anniskiel and I don't always agree lol.gif , but if there's one myth that needs demolishing it's that a tired dog is a 'good' dog.

I would be very wary of doggy daycare. Some (very few) are good and manage interactions reasonably well; others are a free for all. That may cause problems when you later encounter dogs on walks and she thinks it's fine to go and mug them. Alternatively, she may well get bullied at doggy day care. Bullying can be extremely subtle, but it can turn a dog into a bully, or make them fearful.

I'm really sorry this sounds so negative becxause I know you are trying hard to do the right thing for your dog; I just think people should be aware of the pitfalls of exhausting dogs to control their behaviour, especially young dogs who have so much learning and growing to do. As Anniskiel says, dogs need mental stimulation. We all want our dogs to be fit, but who wants to live with a canine athlete, really?

I am basing what I say on the fallout I see in my classes and consultations with dogs of particular breeds that people have been told need several hours of walking a day. These dogs always improve physically, behaviourally and mentally when we take them off walks, sometimes for weeks or months on end. Remember that all stimulation raises adrenaline levels, and when adrenaline levels are raised permanently, dogs become more twitchy and reactive and are less able to think, and ultimately suffer health problems in many cases.

A good book to read is 'Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers'. It's about humans, but much of the physiology applies to dogs too.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
nikirushka
post 6th Oct 2016, 8:41 am
Post #34


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 17720
Joined: 6 Dec 06
From: Scunthorpe, Lincs
Member No.: 25819



I think the type of exercise is the important part. Charging around with other dogs for a few hours may not be the best outlet as it does tend to ramp up the adrenaline, as do things like ball chasing; but a long walk of the same duration, investigating surroundings and doing lots of sniffing, and seeing different environments or a shorter run, involving a steady pace rather than charging about, will be far better for a dog without the adrenalin going through the roof.

Some dogs really do need to run - my older collie rarely gets walked, she's had one 20 minute walk in the last 7 months because of her issues and she's happy but if I were to do that with my malinois, I'd have injuries on my hands as she would become increasingly frustrated and start taking it out on the other dogs, no matter what I did at home to entertain her. She needs to get out of the house and stretch her legs. But I don't take her for hours - 40 minutes usually, twice a day. The important part is how I exercise her and the best thing I've done for her and my other dogs is to eliminate ball chasing from 99% of their lives (only Phoebe gets it now with any regularity, and it's very restricted and she must find the ball in the garden first so she's working her brain before she runs).
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Fever
post 6th Oct 2016, 9:09 am
Post #35


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 3699
Joined: 24 Feb 08
From: West Midlands
Member No.: 37085



QUOTE(nikirushka @ 6th Oct 2016, 9:41 am) *

I think the type of exercise is the important part. Charging around with other dogs for a few hours may not be the best outlet as it does tend to ramp up the adrenaline, as do things like ball chasing; but a long walk of the same duration, investigating surroundings and doing lots of sniffing, and seeing different environments or a shorter run, involving a steady pace rather than charging about, will be far better for a dog without the adrenalin going through the roof.

Some dogs really do need to run - my older collie rarely gets walked, she's had one 20 minute walk in the last 7 months because of her issues and she's happy but if I were to do that with my malinois, I'd have injuries on my hands as she would become increasingly frustrated and start taking it out on the other dogs, no matter what I did at home to entertain her. She needs to get out of the house and stretch her legs. But I don't take her for hours - 40 minutes usually, twice a day. The important part is how I exercise her and the best thing I've done for her and my other dogs is to eliminate ball chasing from 99% of their lives (only Phoebe gets it now with any regularity, and it's very restricted and she must find the ball in the garden first so she's working her brain before she runs).


Totally agree with that and much more eloquent than me! My lurcher needs to run, but he needs a couple of short bursts, in context. Something I don't do I just take them to a big empty space or field to burn off energy. They all run off lead, but in the context of a walk where they warm up, sniff, explore, play, hunt, sit with me in the grass etc.

Free running is important, but it has to make sense in the context of the walk. Some dogs, like my Lurcher, are not built for stamina - think Usain Bolt rather than Mo Farrah! Short, intense bursts are right for him, whereas my collie cross is happier with a steady trot, and not in a straight line.

If you do lots of observation of what seems to work for her and what leaves her over tired or frustrated, you'll work out a suitable exercise pattern for her, but I always begin with less, and build up to more if the dog (not necessarily me!) seems to benefit.

Good luck - what greater pleasure than walking with a dog who is tuned into her surroundings and has the opportunity to use all her natural instincts and abilities?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Annieskel
post 6th Oct 2016, 9:38 am
Post #36


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 3675
Joined: 4 May 09
Member No.: 44743



QUOTE(Fever @ 5th Oct 2016, 6:46 pm) *
t
^^ This. Anniskiel and I don't always agree lol.gif , but if there's one myth that needs demolishing it's that a tired dog is a 'good' dog.


We can learn a lot by disagreeing, lol.gif

QUOTE
I would be very wary of doggy daycare. Some (very few) are good and manage interactions reasonably well; others are a free for all. That may cause problems when you later encounter dogs on walks and she thinks it's fine to go and mug them. Alternatively, she may well get bullied at doggy day care. Bullying can be extremely subtle, but it can turn a dog into a bully, or make them fearful.


I was very lucky with my dogs when I was in hospital, the people who home boarded them also had a doggie day care were they went during doggie day care days. Finding somewhere from a hospital bed was a nightmare but thankfully they asked questions about my dogs to find out as much as they could, unlike the police who didn't want to know until I said Jamie had been neutered without anaesthetic. Jamie was my biggest worry as he had been in a pen and had to fight to live, dogs in the public shelters in Romania often killed another dog just to eat so I as really worried about him. I didn't need to be, they did watch him closely and took a lot of care.

Jamie in doggie day care

Image



--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dalsmum
post 6th Oct 2016, 1:00 pm
Post #37


Member
****

Group: Member
Posts: 12126
Joined: 17 Oct 04
From: far north of Scotland
Member No.: 10491



Lots of exercise just produces a fitter dog.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
traceymcl
post 6th Oct 2016, 2:21 pm
Post #38


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 2570
Joined: 20 Nov 03
From: Stirlingshire, Scotland
Member No.: 6485



QUOTE(nikirushka @ 6th Oct 2016, 9:41 am) *

I think the type of exercise is the important part. Charging around with other dogs for a few hours may not be the best outlet as it does tend to ramp up the adrenaline, as do things like ball chasing; but a long walk of the same duration, investigating surroundings and doing lots of sniffing, and seeing different environments or a shorter run, involving a steady pace rather than charging about, will be far better for a dog without the adrenalin going through the roof.


So much agree too, Niki.

Type of exercise matters loads - and variety is, IMO, really important. I remember once years ago hearing Robin Walker talk about how dogs who have a variety of things they like are happier - so far as he could see - than dogs who maybe only have one or two things. It really stuck with me and made me think about looking for more things I could find that my dogs would like to do.

I think too that some of it depends on the family the dog lives in and what their lifestyle is like. Fitness, sadly, is one of the things that needs to worked at regularly and kept up with. So - a young person and a young dog - are likely to get away with a lifestyle that involves little more exercise than moving from the couch to the fridge to the car to more sitting down with maybe a little toddle around the block or to the local park without any problems at all.

They may even find that once or twice a year, they can get up off the couch and join their more exercise loving friends on a trip up Ben Lomond without any more ill effects than a bit of stiffness the next day.

As people and dogs age, however, that sort of lifestyle will take its toll. A 5 year old dog whos only exercise is a couple of gentle half hour walks a day may well struggle on a longer walk. The same dog at 10 probably wouldn't manage a long walk. Same with people - but at greater ages. It's possible to build up fitness in older people and dogs but it is more difficult. And - there are health benefits to being fitter and doing strenuous exercise a few time a week. Hearts and lungs work better. Back and joint pain is reduced. Quality of life is better for people (and dogs) who are capable of moving around and exploring more of the world around them.

So - while I can see very real benefits in having dogs that are not very fit - I would prefer that both me and my dogs are fit and active.

My mum organises a lunch for a group of fit and active people who are over 80. They all know each other because of being mountaineers in their youths and they have all kept up active lifestyles. In the group is a 90 year old who still skis regularly and a widowed 86 year old man who can think of nothing other than finding a girlfriend who wants to have sex with him. I'm convinced that they are as able as that because they have all always kept themselves fit. I hope that both me and my dogs are like them in old age - and not like the elderly people and dogs that are more usually seen.

And - even though it can make things tricky sometimes - I think that depending on the individual, there are arguments in favour of raised adrenaline levels. Doing things like intense exercise that raise adrenaline levels feel amazing. I run regularly and it raises my adrenaline and then afterwards (sometimes during the run itself) I feel euphoric. It wouldn't be good to go through the whole of life that way but to never feel it would make me very unhappy. Same for my dogs. I want them to feel the way I feel so mine do regularly chase toys and smells and run with me.

We also all do spend plenty of time not doing that sort of thing. We have gentle lead walks for sniffing. The dogs stay at home and rest while I'm at work. I have a desk job that requires a high level of thinking and concentration. Some days we just lounge around and watch telly all day. Rest and calmness are very important but I wouldn't want them to be the only thing in my life. smile.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Fever
post 6th Oct 2016, 3:05 pm
Post #39


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 3699
Joined: 24 Feb 08
From: West Midlands
Member No.: 37085



I do agree that variety is really important, but what really matters is that the dog has a choice and even more importantly can express that choice and be heard.

While I admire your mountaineering pensioners, there are just as many athletes whose bodies are wrecked - I know a fair few retired ballet dancers who were at the peak of fitness in their 30s, now virtually crippled. Ask Seb Coe about his knees, they are buggered from too much fell running! My mum, an avid hill walker up to the age of 70 now has severe arthritis and a dowager's hump - and that's in spite if a lifetime of yoga. These things may help, but genetics plays the long game!

Where it can go wrong for dogs when the exercise reflects the owner's ambitions, not the choice and benefit of the dog. I see this a lot with border collies and the way they deteriorate as they age due to over strenuous exercise such as agility. I've had agility competitors tell me 9 is a good age for a Border Collie - what nonsense. I know of pet collies living well and happily into their late teens.

As with everything,it is all about balance, but also examining your own motivation for the exercise regime imposed on the dog. If you aren't careful, it can be just how the dog lives, whether beneficial or not. You can't expect a dog that has been sensitised to a moving toy to decide one day he doesn't want or feel like chasing it, for example because his back is painful or his shoulders hurt from coming to a sharp brake at the end of contact equipment. Dogs are completely dependent on their owners in this respect and while all dogs need exercise including that which raises their heart rate, overdoing it will never be of benefit.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
traceymcl
post 6th Oct 2016, 3:45 pm
Post #40


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 2570
Joined: 20 Nov 03
From: Stirlingshire, Scotland
Member No.: 6485



I absolutely agree. It is totally possible to be overdoing things entirely.

I am very much of the opinion that anybody who is an athlete to the extent of being professional at it is probably overdoing it.

I always think that competition causes more harm than good. People who compete - especially those who win - tend to push themselves further than they should. People like Seb Coe - are good examples of those sorts of people.

It is possible to find a balance where exercise is something to be enjoyed not something to be won, where pain and tiredness are taken as signs to slacken off and rest rather than push on through. A lot depends on attitude. I don't tend to hang around in competitive environments so the stuff I do is for fun. Even the half marathon. At the slower end of the field like I am, these events are about getting out and enjoying some fresh air and a laugh. The duffers don't take it all that seriously in my experience so there is less pressure to be pushing.

I'm guessing that people who do well at agility are similar to people who do well in other types of competition and considerations of health and longevity are forgotten in the push to win?

I think it is possible to enjoy doing activities without becoming extreme about it. This means that people don't have to choose between avoiding all excitement or having a life that is all about pushing and excitement. You can find some middle ground.

I bet your mum doesn't regret her years of hill walking and all the experiences she had doing it. If she has osteoarthritis, any decent physio will be telling her to keep active as active as possible since the only thing that really helps with that is strong muscles supporting the joints. My mum was told by her GP that she should give up skiing and playing golf in her 50s because she had developed arthritis in one knee (after breaking her leg). She went off and found a sports physio who got her back doing both things and she did both for years afterwards.

She only stopped in her 60s because she started needing to care for my dad who had dementia. She hasn't skied again but now, in her 70s, she still plays golf regularly. Her genetics are not good at all. She is one of 9 siblings and is the only one to have reached her 70s. One of the others lived to 69 and the others all died in their 50s and 60s. The ill health continues into my generation and several of my first cousins died at young ages of heart problems. My mum's commitment to being physically active sets her aside from the rest of her family who were all pretty much inactive so I think that even with poor genetics, being fit and active can do lots of good (so long as you don't overdo it and become a professional athlete. smile.gif or go mental and push yourself too hard in your 50s after a lifetime of sitting around)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
traceymcl
post 6th Oct 2016, 4:01 pm
Post #41


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 2570
Joined: 20 Nov 03
From: Stirlingshire, Scotland
Member No.: 6485



QUOTE(Fever @ 6th Oct 2016, 4:05 pm) *

I do agree that variety is really important, but what really matters is that the dog has a choice and even more importantly can express that choice and be heard.


This I so much agree with too. Although choice, I think, needs to be balanced with health and longevity.

If I gave Cuillin - my collie cross - a free choice every day then what we would do is go to a nearby moor that is home to deer and hares. I would take his lead off and I would wait there for a few hours while he ran around following their scents. Then I would take him home, feed him and let him rest until the next day.

It was this preference of his that made me start going running. I'd always hated running with a passion. I'm rubbish at it and it made me feel tired. I would have stayed that way had it not been for having an adolescent dog who was becoming increasingly frustrated with long line walks but who would disappear for hours after smells if he was off his lead. Running with him really helped him during that time of his life and I found I liked too.

Over the years we've found other things that he likes and he's learned to be calmer about smells most of the time but his preference remains to chase smells and if I would just take him to places and wait for him while he did it, he'd be pleased.

In fact, several times a week, I do take Cuillin to places where he can chase smells while I wait for him. We've mostly reached an agreement over the years and he tends to come back after a few minutes (so long as I choose the place carefully so that the scent isn't overwhelming since he can still lose himself in it if its too much).

If I gave Roxy the staffie cross a free choice I'd take her to a river and I would throw a stick in repeatedly for about half an hour and then I'd take her home and let her sleep until the next day. Again - several times a week I do take her to a river and throw a toy in for her to fetch. Not for as long as she would like but it does happen.

I know what their choices would be and we do do those things - but not to the exclusion of everything else which is what each of them would do if left to their own devices.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Annieskel
post 6th Oct 2016, 8:15 pm
Post #42


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 3675
Joined: 4 May 09
Member No.: 44743



QUOTE(Fever @ 6th Oct 2016, 4:05 pm) *

While I admire your mountaineering pensioners, there are just as many athletes whose bodies are wrecked - I know a fair few retired ballet dancers who were at the peak of fitness in their 30s, now virtually crippled. Ask Seb Coe about his knees, they are buggered from too much fell running! My mum, an avid hill walker up to the age of 70 now has severe arthritis and a dowager's hump - and that's in spite if a lifetime of yoga. These things may help, but genetics plays the long game!


You don't have to be an athlete to have a wrecked body, not being able to drive and the bus only every hour I used to walk a lot to get to various places within a couple of miles, then there walking the dogs, walking to and from my horse etc. Working in a riding school you spend most of your time walking. No I have had both hips replaced and my knees are going. I exercise my dogs with a mobility scooter which doesn't go fast enough for most of my dogs. Yes they do get sniffing time, they have their own spots were they read the doggy mail and leave messages behind but if they want to stop somewhere else they let me know by pulling towards were they want to go and yes, they are allowed to. Now I am getting fitter myself after being ill I will be starting training sessions again as well as fun things in the garden.

QUOTE
Where it can go wrong for dogs when the exercise reflects the owner's ambitions, not the choice and benefit of the dog. I see this a lot with border collies and the way they age for a Border Collie - what nonsense. I know of pet collies living well and happily into their late teens.


My uncle used to have a farm and working collies, these dogs were fit and active and were capable of working all day but that work didn't put the strain on them that agility and flyball does. His dogs used to live until their late teens, obviously they didn't work till then but he always kept them to live their lives out naturally. He had one that wouldn't eat any food that was given to her but went up the fields every day and caught herself a rabbit and ate it.



--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
phoenix21
post 24th Oct 2016, 2:32 pm
Post #43


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 1686
Joined: 3 Jun 04
From: Cumbria
Member No.: 8843



Ha just caught up on this - wow.

Yes i agree it is too much and i think she was too tired (IT WAS ONCE!) I haven't been back or needed to as she goes to my in laws usually when we are at work it just happened she was away and the dog care is run by a very reputable dog trainer. she had lots of different stimulation and wasnt running round with dogs all day. They had time out and one to one time as well.

Anyway seems like you cant win. I fully understand she is only coming up to 11 months and is not fully developed yet and have been following the breeders / KC advice re: walking distances since we got her at 9 weeks.

Usually when we are working she has 20 mins in morning and 30 mins at night. on the remaining 4 days a week she gets 45 mins to an hour in morning and 30 mins at night. Mix of off lead and on lead walking. We also go to dog training fortnightly too for some variety and i train her at home as well.

She seems to be getting somewhat better particularly we have found letting her have more freedom around the house. Got someone hopefully coming out to house for a session in next few weeks just need to get date fixed with her.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Annieskel
post 25th Oct 2016, 7:01 am
Post #44


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 3675
Joined: 4 May 09
Member No.: 44743



Does she have 'quite time'? I always expect my dog to have 'quiet time' when I am having lunch and for an hour afterwards, if they start to get over excited we have 'quiet time', I find this good for settling them down again.

Has she been spayed? I find that when a bitch has her first season she becomes an adult dog and mentally she steadies down a lot and is no longer a puppy. This is another reason why I don't like early neutering, these bitches miss out on this.

Do you play mind games with her? I games help a lot, they exercise the brain which Staffies need. There is a lot of videos on You Tube of dogs playing mind games.

Any dog that is going through their teenage period can be a hooligan but Staffies specialise in this, they are like a bull in a china shop lol.gif



--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
phoenix21
post 25th Oct 2016, 7:28 am
Post #45


Member
Group Icon

Group: Sponsor Member
Posts: 1686
Joined: 3 Jun 04
From: Cumbria
Member No.: 8843



QUOTE(Annieskel @ 25th Oct 2016, 8:01 am) *

Does she have 'quite time'? I always expect my dog to have 'quiet time' when I am having lunch and for an hour afterwards, if they start to get over excited we have 'quiet time', I find this good for settling them down again.

Has she been spayed? I find that when a bitch has her first season she becomes an adult dog and mentally she steadies down a lot and is no longer a puppy. This is another reason why I don't like early neutering, these bitches miss out on this.

Do you play mind games with her? I games help a lot, they exercise the brain which Staffies need. There is a lot of videos on You Tube of dogs playing mind games.

Any dog that is going through their teenage period can be a hooligan but Staffies specialise in this, they are like a bull in a china shop lol.gif



I really feel like I made a mistake spaying her at 6 months but different vets recommended it and my old staffie suffered with phantom pregnancies (I got hwr spayed at 3) so thought I was doing right...am not so sure now.

I agree I think she needs more quiet time as she will only.sleep when she is in her crate. I think I did need to do more games with her too thanks x
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

5 Pages V < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th August 2017 - 11:25 pm