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Dogpages encourages owners to learn the skills to train their dogs with modern non-coercive methods and not to train with pain. Posts and advice given must reflect this policy.

For serious problems, owners should always seek good professional advice.

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> Advice - Biting / Moiuthing Staffi
phoenix21
post 1st Oct 2016, 5:36 am
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Fever
post 1st Oct 2016, 7:24 am
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QUOTE(Annieskel @ 30th Sep 2016, 9:40 pm) *

Walking out of the room when your dog bites is not training, it is putting your dog in a position were he works out why you walk out of the room. Not everyone has the money to get in a behaviourist and need something they can do that will stop the dog's behaviour without causing any problems or using force. It is easy to do, isn't stressful to you and does work.

There is a behaviourist not far from me, she is registered as one and is old fashioned in her methods, I found out because someone on the internet had her out and I was shocked at what she was telling this owner to do so looked into her up. If you do get a behaviourist, please try and go by recommendation of someone who has had them as well as the list they are registered on.

I'll just say this - on another thread we were discussing the perils of giving advice on Facebook for medical conditions. I'd say the same for significant behaviour problems, and I think it is irresponsible to give specific training advice for a problem as serious as this, especially when children are involved.

Got that of my chest! She looks utterly delightful! At 10 months she's an adolescent ( think wayward teenager) so you can expect some pushing of the boundaries, but once you get through this with some help, she'll be an absolute delight I'm sure!

This post has been edited by Fever: 1st Oct 2016, 7:25 am
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nikirushka
post 1st Oct 2016, 8:34 am
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Bearing in mind what has been said about giving advice over the internet, I'm still going to suggest two things. Have a look at Karen Overall's relaxation protocol. I find it very useful for dogs like her to teach them self control and calmness. The basic rule of it is that no matter what you do, if she doesn't move, she gets rewarded.

http://www.upwithpup.com/resources/overall_relaxation_part1

I would also teach her a very strong 'leave', as you can then use that when she's getting chompy and if she persists, just walk out of the room and shut the door for 10 seconds. If you do this every time she ignores you and continue to chomp, she'll soon get the message that chomping ends all attention and interaction.

Even if there was any aggression involved, providing you train everything in a calm way (so do not say 'leave' in a harsh tone but quietly etc), these exercises will only help increase self control and should not make anything worse.

This post has been edited by nikirushka: 1st Oct 2016, 8:37 am
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Annieskel
post 1st Oct 2016, 2:36 pm
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QUOTE(Fever @ 1st Oct 2016, 8:24 am) *

I'll just say this - on another thread we were discussing the perils of giving advice on Facebook for medical conditions. I'd say the same for significant behaviour problems, and I think it is irresponsible to give specific training advice for a problem as serious as this, especially when children are involved.

Got that of my chest! She looks utterly delightful! At 10 months she's an adolescent ( think wayward teenager) so you can expect some pushing of the boundaries, but once you get through this with some help, she'll be an absolute delight I'm sure!



First I was not giving advice on a medical condition, second, as I said previously walking out of the room and closing the door isn't training, it is walking away from a situation and won't do any harm and may do a lot of good. All the normal methods have never worked for me, this has, and as I usually get the dogs that others can't cope with, it is a really good method for dogs with or without problems and the dog is not self rewarding for an unwanted behaviour. It is so simple that children can do it and have with a lot of success.


This post has been edited by Annieskel: 1st Oct 2016, 2:38 pm


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LongDogs
post 2nd Oct 2016, 12:22 am
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No idea if this would be your sort of thing and dont know who they use but worth applying to find out more?
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nikirushka
post 2nd Oct 2016, 9:45 am
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Worth finding out more but with a huge chunk of caution, I think. To date these things have not been good with the exception of Victoria Stillwell (and even then, her early shows were heavy on the dominance rubbish).
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Fever
post 2nd Oct 2016, 11:44 am
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I'd advise strongly against I'm afraid. Dog already sounds hyper stressed so I can't see how taking part in a tv reality show will help.

At the very least, I would say health issues especially neurological problems should be ruled out by a vet. This is why I find training and behavioral advice without seeing the dog unwise. No one on here has ever set eyes on this dog, and I would say it us contradictory to recommend consulting a qualified practitioner on one hand and offering techniques on the other. It's just not responsible for a case like this, in my opinion.

This post has been edited by Fever: 2nd Oct 2016, 11:45 am
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nikirushka
post 2nd Oct 2016, 11:54 am
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I agree but there has to be a balance sometimes - not giving full behavioural advice vs. giving none at all and things continuing to get worse. What me and Annieskel have said should not make the situation worse, because the approaches we suggest encourage calmness, self control and/or remove a trigger (the human) from the situation.

Some people cannot afford behavioural help and fora like this may be the only hope they have in an online sea of atrocious information so I do not feel comfortable saying nothing at all; and KO's relaxation protocol is exactly that. It does not encourage or increase aggression or play biting, quite the opposite, so in the absence of more detailed advice or until a visit from a professional and a vet trip can be arranged, it's a good starting point.
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Fever
post 2nd Oct 2016, 12:56 pm
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Fair point - I've said myself I find this forum very useful, but in my view it has to be complementary to professional advice and help, not a substitute. Not everyone giving advice on here is as qualified and experienced as you are, so what's the difference between that the people giving advice on Facebook, or indeed asking a bloke in the park? You might get good advice, you might not.

Don't get me wrong, a variety of advice and opinions can be very useful. For example, I don't believe training approaches are always the best answer, because I've seen the negative fall out too often. And I personally don't agree you can 'teach' a dog to 'relax' using food, although you can teach a dog to lie still on a mat. The latter might be a useful thing to teach, but I've never seen any evidence that the dog has learned to 'relax'.

This post has been edited by Fever: 2nd Oct 2016, 12:58 pm
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phoenix21
post 2nd Oct 2016, 1:42 pm
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All useful advice thank you. Not sure about TV ha ha.

I am speaking to a behaviourist over the phone on Monday as a first step and I do think with consistent training across the board she will get better. Shes certainly not aggressive but still doesn't make the behaviour acceptable in any way.

Good to get people's different opinions anyway so thanks. I don't think it's anything medical or neurological she's been very bitey since we have had her but is certainlying better than it was. Her breeder says her sister who he kept is similar but she lives with other dogs who have helped in teaching when she bites too hard!
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Fever
post 2nd Oct 2016, 3:34 pm
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Great, that's good to hear you may have found someone to help smile.gif . Good luck, she is terribly sweet! X
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Annieskel
post 2nd Oct 2016, 5:28 pm
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QUOTE(Fever @ 2nd Oct 2016, 1:56 pm) *

Fair point - I've said myself I find this forum very useful, but in my view it has to be complementary to professional advice and help, not a substitute. Not everyone giving advice on here is as qualified and experienced as you are, so what's the difference between that the people giving advice on Facebook, or indeed asking a bloke in the park? You might get good advice, you might not.


You may live in an area were there are good behaviourists and trainers, I don't and am often asked for advice, some of the training I have seen has been horrendous, a GSD who was dog reactive, the owner was told to split hs food into 5 portions and put into plastic bags. Take his dog out 5 times a day and take one of these bags with him. If he passes a dog without reacting then let him have the food, if he doesn't, rub the bag over his nose and throw it away. This dog hadn't eaten for 3 days when I saw this, I threatened to report him to the RSPCA unless he feeds his dog. This advice was given by the trainer who was supposed to be experienced with GSDs, a few weeks later the dog bit my neighbour on the leg as she was walking past and was pts. That is the training by me and the behaviourists are no better so any advice I can give I will do but I only give advice on my experience, if I haven't experienced it I don't give advice.

Would you still say get professional advice if you lived by me?

QUOTE
Don't get me wrong, a variety of advice and opinions can be very useful. For example, I don't believe training approaches are always the best answer, because I've seen the negative fall out too often. And I personally don't agree you can 'teach' a dog to 'relax' using food, although you can teach a dog to lie still on a mat. The latter might be a useful thing to teach, but I've never seen any evidence that the dog has learned to 'relax'.


Depends on what you mean by 'training', every time we interact with our dogs we are teaching them something and often we don't realise it. We teach them that when we pick a lead up it means walkies, when we get their food dish out it means they are being fed. There are lots of things we teach our dogs without realising it, they are the most common ones.

It is impossible to teach relax where it is a human or dog, you can make the surroundings calming and eventually they may start to relax. We can go to aromatherapy or Reiki or do yoga etc, they all help us relax but not dogs, TTouch does help dogs relax and I have often used it for this in the past.



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phoenix21
post 5th Oct 2016, 9:27 am
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Its good to know people's personal experiences too as to what works. Yes a behaviourist will know best but i like to weigh up options and see what works for some people.

She went to doggy day care on Monday run by a very highly recommended dog trainer (and quite expensive!!). She came back a dream lol. She had 2 hour long walks and played with 2 other dogs all day. They did some training with her and said she was no bother. She was exhausted at the end of the day. Maybe thats the key...tire her out!! They noticed as well shes not bothered with kongs etc but suggested frozen bananas to keep her occupied too.

Once she gets fully mature around 1yr i want to start canifit with her which might help get rid of excess energy lol.
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Craters_on_the_lawn
post 5th Oct 2016, 10:19 am
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You have my sympathy and are not alone!

My very large mainly deerhound lurcher was a terrible mouther/over-excited play-biter for AGES..... long after other people with similar-aged puppies had stopped we were still having a nightmare! And yet he was (and still is) a lovely lovely natured dog. He was just too over-excitable and wanted an outlet for his excess energy. We did try wearing him out..... lol.gif He really wanted to play "rough" and we just weren't really suitable playmates (really needed another young large lurcher to romp round with! - although maybe this wouldn't have helped him learn to behave nicely around other dogs!)
Our clothes all got holes in, he continually jumped up and bit through the trampoline net and destroyed it; likewise any washing on the line;(the list goes on....) I do remember being in despair. (My children were 10, 8 and 5 at the time)

But.....we survived! And he did eventually get better!

I don't think we did anything very effective to try to sort the problem out (although we did try alot of things! including dog training classes) -I was a lot less experienced then. I wish I had known about Dogpages and read some of this very sensible advice at the time.

So EVEN if you do nothing and just hang on in there she will get better! !0 months old is right in the middle of the worst of the teenage phase. Although hopefully with some of this really useful advice you will begin to start calming the problem down more effectively and quicker. Lovely dog by the way (I have a soft spot for Staffies)
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nikirushka
post 5th Oct 2016, 11:11 am
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Try the relaxation protocol. I see quite a few adolescent chompy dogs just like this, and that protocol is the foundation stone of my approach with them and it has proven itself very useful.
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