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> Dogs Behaving Badly. Ch 4 Saturday
Auntie Ange
post 13th Mar 2017, 8:57 am
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Jeffrey's Mummy
post 13th Mar 2017, 10:00 am
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I saw the trailer on breakfast so I didn't bother watching it. When will people learn there are no quick fixes.
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mokee
post 13th Mar 2017, 11:15 am
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Another petition here calling for the show to be cancelled.

https://www.change.org/p/channel-4-cancel-d...ethical-methods
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mokee
post 13th Mar 2017, 11:24 am
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But, if you really want Channel 4 to listen, what you actually need to be doing is contacting Channel 4 directly and explaining exactly why you think they shouldn't make an actual series of Dogs Behaving Badly to follow up this pilot. All comments and complaints the Duty Office take are written up into a Duty Log which is distributed daily to everybody at Channel 4 and they really do take notice. I used to work in the Duty Office of a different TV Channel that used the same system and they would often make programming decisions based on comments and complaints received through the Duty Office. You can contact the Channel 4 Duty Office here:

https://www.channel4.com/4viewers/contact-us

I'm about to go and tell them what I think right now.

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asher241
post 13th Mar 2017, 1:42 pm
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I received this last year:-

Hi there,



I hope youíre well. My nameís Charlotte and Iím an Assistant Producer at Liberty Bell TV where weíre currently casting for a new Channel 4 show that seeks to transform badly behaved dogs in just a few days with the help of professional canine expert Graeme Hall.



I wondered whether there was any way in which you might be able to help get the word out to owners who are in desperate need of help, perhaps via a mailing list, social media or even word of mouth. I appreciate some of these may be existing customers, but perhaps youíll know of some extreme cases in which the behaviour has returned post-training, or even families that are unable to afford professional help.



Iíve attached our flyer (which is also below) with further information, any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.



Please donít hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions,



Many thanks in advance,



Charlotte


I replied in depth explaining exactly why I could not support such a trainer and what I thought of his methods, needless to say I did not get a reply! Why on earth would they even think an APDT trainer would support such a person!! I am so pleased I missed the screening.
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woofgang
post 13th Mar 2017, 3:24 pm
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I remember this, it was discussed on here wasnít it?
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Dalsmum
post 13th Mar 2017, 6:36 pm
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weíre currently casting for a new Channel 4 show that seeks to transform badly behaved dogs in just a few days


T
hat says it all. You cannot transform a badly behaved dog in a few days.




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Annieskel
post 14th Mar 2017, 8:22 am
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Rob Alleyne's Facebook page has come alive with all the comments on this program.

https://www.facebook.com/robert.alleyne


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Annieskel
post 15th Mar 2017, 8:45 am
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This was posted on Rob Alleyne's page, it is a reply from Victoria about why she is not, and never has been a purely positive dog trainer.


https://positively.com/victorias-blog/why-i...ve-dog-trainer/


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woofgang
post 15th Mar 2017, 2:50 pm
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QUOTE(Annieskel @ 15th Mar 2017, 8:45 am) *

This was posted on Rob Alleyne's page, it is a reply from Victoria about why she is not, and never has been a purely positive dog trainer.
https://positively.com/victorias-blog/why-i...ve-dog-trainer/



I didnít understand a word of that! lol.gif
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barkin mad
post 17th Mar 2017, 8:17 pm
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Victoria's blog seems a lot of waffle around the basic confirmation that she works positively huh.gif

Didn't watch the channel 4 show, would get too cross. A decent trainer would never brag about fixing dogs in a few days. But the best way, slowly and methodically and consistently would make for cr@ppy television, and sensationalism makes great television.

All we can hope is that the fuss makes them think the show is not worth the hassle....
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Annieskel
post 17th Mar 2017, 9:10 pm
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No she isn't purely positive and neither am I, it is difficult to understand, I still struggle with it.

If a dog does what we want we reward him, it can be treats, toy etc. if they don't do it they don't get a reward, that part is not being positive but negative and could be classed as punishment. I have seen those into the shock collars say that is a worse punishment that using the shock collar because the dog is expecting a reward, I don't agree of course.

So being only positive means that a dog only gets rewards and the rewards are never withhold, some people follow a dog round for days waiting for them to do what they want, say sit, so they can reward them. That didn't last long as people got fed up with the waiting although it still goes on.

Positive training is misunderstood just like clicker training. Some think you just push treats into a dog's mouth and that is a reward, to me that is stupid and the dog doesn't learn anything. Yes done properly clicker training is positive but again it is not done properly or understood. We have all seen owners give a dog a command and use the clicker, when the dog ignores it they continue to use the clicker, the dog hasn't a clue what is being asked for. The best is getting them to recall by continually pressing the clicker, that is not training because the dog is pleasing themselves. They are using a clicker to tell the dog they have to obey instead of a marker to say they have done what the owner wants them to.

To be honest I have never seen a trainer that was purely positive, they all do something negative to a dog that doesn't obey them. Trainers who say other trainers are purely positive I would run from because they don't understand how a dog thinks and what they will work for and I don't care how famous they are.

Victoria Stillwell has never claimed to be purely positive, when she first came on the TV she used aversions but many people wrote to her saying how wrong she was, she then started to learn and took courses etc. Positive training doesn't mean purely positive.

I hope you can understand that. lol.gif





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woofgang
post 18th Mar 2017, 12:49 pm
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QUOTE(Annieskel @ 17th Mar 2017, 9:10 pm) *

No she isn't purely positive and neither am I, it is difficult to understand, I still struggle with it.

If a dog does what we want we reward him, it can be treats, toy etc. if they don't do it they don't get a reward, that part is not being positive but negative and could be classed as punishment. I have seen those into the shock collars say that is a worse punishment that using the shock collar because the dog is expecting a reward, I don't agree of course.

So being only positive means that a dog only gets rewards and the rewards are never withhold, some people follow a dog round for days waiting for them to do what they want, say sit, so they can reward them. That didn't last long as people got fed up with the waiting although it still goes on.

Positive training is misunderstood just like clicker training. Some think you just push treats into a dog's mouth and that is a reward, to me that is stupid and the dog doesn't learn anything. Yes done properly clicker training is positive but again it is not done properly or understood. We have all seen owners give a dog a command and use the clicker, when the dog ignores it they continue to use the clicker, the dog hasn't a clue what is being asked for. The best is getting them to recall by continually pressing the clicker, that is not training because the dog is pleasing themselves. They are using a clicker to tell the dog they have to obey instead of a marker to say they have done what the owner wants them to.

To be honest I have never seen a trainer that was purely positive, they all do something negative to a dog that doesn't obey them. Trainers who say other trainers are purely positive I would run from because they don't understand how a dog thinks and what they will work for and I don't care how famous they are.

Victoria Stillwell has never claimed to be purely positive, when she first came on the TV she used aversions but many people wrote to her saying how wrong she was, she then started to learn and took courses etc. Positive training doesn't mean purely positive.

I hope you can understand that. lol.gif

ermmmm nope lol.gif
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woofgang
post 18th Mar 2017, 1:22 pm
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my edit timed out....here’s the rest of my post
I am happy to declare myself a purely positive trainer for the following reasons
I believe that every planned training experience should be an enjoyable one for the dog. I believe in making unplanned training experiences as pleasant as they possibly can be.
I have seriously NEVER withheld a training reward from my current two dogs. This is mainly because of two things. The first is that I make it as easy as possible for them to do what I ask when the activity is a new one. The second sounds silly but think about it. I don’t ask then to do things at times/places/circumstances when i think that they won’t. If I get it wrong, that is my fault and not theirs and I take appropriate action. That may be quickly asking them for something they will/can do or it may be intervening in some other way if I need to stop what they are doing.
I don’t follow my dogs around for days waiting for them to to what i want so i can reward them. I do go to a lot of trouble to set things up so that at a time of my choosing, they will offer a behaviour that I want so I can reward it.

This post has been edited by woofgang: 18th Mar 2017, 1:23 pm
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Annieskel
post 18th Mar 2017, 8:16 pm
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QUOTE(woofgang @ 18th Mar 2017, 12:49 pm) *

ermmmm nope lol.gif



I will try again, everything we do there is a positive and a negative, we ask a dog to sit and they sit, we reward them, positive and the dog should, not all do, sit when we ask again. If the dog doesn't sit we don't give them the treat, negative, this is what some say is worse than a shock collar, they really are stupid at times, the men not the dog.

So when we use positive training their is also negatives because we don't reward unless they do what we want, so positive training isn't all positive because we withhold the reward.

Is that any clearer. lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif



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